Vintage Lighting High School Auditorium - Old Lighting System

cdicorcia

Member
Hello Everyone,
I'm a senior at a high school in northern New Jersey with a sad excuse of an auditorium, let alone theatre. There is no one officially in charge of the space; the closest would be the very overworked and underpaid janitors who can set up a few mics for an event. I have been in this space for 6 years now and am the last person who knows how to use the lighting board, save for the musical director. I'm looking to "spruce up" the lighting system.

The auditorium has never known anything new. All the lights, lighting system, sound, etc. have been used previously, which isn't necessarily bad, but they were considered used in 1974.

The lighting board, a Trouping Control Console, Model TCC 2-36/T, was manufactured by Electronics Diversified Inc. It has 3 analog control cables as inputs from the dimmers. It operates on 15 pin Cinch-Jones connectors. It has managed to withstand years of tape, spilled drinks, broken knobs, backpacks being thrown on it, and anything else you can imagine middle and high schoolers could do to it. Yet, it "works" for what we use it for.

The dimmers, 3 of them, also EDI manufactured, are all Scrimmerette II's. They somehow are still working, despite being in continuous operation since at least 1980 and never once being maintained.

The few lights we are down to are 8 ellipsoidal spotlights that are hung from a batten in the front of the house, 2 fresnels, and 3 rows of striplights that are down to less than half of their original working lights each. Also, the 8 round front house lights and 16 (8 on each side) round house lights are connected to the board. Each year, we lose more and more lights that are not replaced.

The lighting and sound board are positioned DIRECTLY in front of the stage, just of the front center, putting the students, who futily operate what lights that decide to work, into the show, as they are illuminated as well as the actors.

For YEARS the director, who is also the communications teacher, has pleaded with administration and the board of ed. to replace the antiquated system or even to just maintain what little is left. They are sympathetic, yet nothing has or will be done. We joke, not so jokingly, that the best thing would be for the system to finally die just as the school was using the auditorium for a parent meeting, forcing them to finally do something. Replacing anything with drama club funds is out of the question; we barely receive enough money to purchase the rights to a show.

I know there is not much that can be done without a consultant; we've had countless ones come in just to give us an estimate that we cannot simply do anything with. However, I would like to begin by doing one thing.

I am almost positive that I could move the lighting board to a "tech table" that would be set up over the last two rows of seating. To do this, I would need to make 3 "extension cords" that would allow me to run the cinch-jones cables from backstage to the back of the auditorium where the light board would be. I believe that I found the connectors online, yet I am unsure which version to purchase. There is a 300-series rated at 7-1/2 amps @120 VAC and a 400-series rated at 15 amps @ 120 VAC. Which version should I choose? Also, how are the pins wired? I know the 8-pin cinch-jones are: 1-6 dimmers/ 7 nothing/ 8 common. What is the configuration for the 15 pin? Also, what kind of cable can be used? Any cable that is shielded, with at least 15 strands? The cables will run no more than 50 feet.

I won't be attempting this alone, as my uncle is an electrician and I have a teacher helping me who is very familiar with electrical engineering.

Thank you so much for reading all of this. I appreciate any help you can give me.

-Connor

Website for Cinch-Jones Connector Electronics Plus - Hard to find parts and accessories, available and ready to ship!
 

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I would note that you'll likely need to run those through a conduit to your final location, not just run it up through the house somewhere under seats. I assume with an electrician on board that wouldn't have been missed, but its always worth mentioning.
 
Wow, excellent and descriptive post!

As you've said, maintenance is an issue and where you should start. That board looks dirty and could use a cleaning. I notice that you're missing some slider caps -- I own the same board but in a smaller format (it is the TCC-2/12). I have no use for it, so let me know via PM if you want to buy it for parts. It's cheap - double-digits cheap). As an aside, if you need any technical assistance with your system, Alan Child of EDI Service & Repair is one of the former engineers of EDI and can help you with anything regarding your control/dimmer system. Super nice guy - always willing to take a phone call and talk you through whatever issue you're having. Just have a pen and paper ready because he will recite bits of very useful info even if you don't ask for it! :).

Regarding the control cable, I'd suggest making a new one of the proper length, if possible (or at least have it to where there are no in-line connections). Luckily, you are dealing with low voltage (either 7.6 or 10v DC) so you won't risk burning anything down with this modification.

I know that Belden cable is widely regarded as standard for all kinds of installs, so start there first.

We joke, not so jokingly, that the best thing would be for the system to finally die just as the school was using the auditorium for a parent meeting, forcing them to finally do something.

You joke about that, but my old high school was in a very similar situation. A few years before I started, they turned the lights out on a school board meeting and used a God Mic to say "to see, or not to see..."

Kind of drove the point home, and the renovation was initiated a few years later. It's obviously more about timing and budget, but it probably didn't hurt to draw attention to the fact.
 
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The tech table that we would set up would be temporary; we would only be putting it up for shows (2 per year). Cheap conduit would be a consideration, but not a big concern. But the electrician would most likely have caught that right away.
 
Haha, Thanks for the compliment! Your suggestions were exactly what I was looking for. I know EDI went under some years ago, so it's great that you were able to refer me to a former engineer. And thanks for the heads up about the wealth of knowledge he'll be able to provide ;)

An entirely new control cable would probably be a good idea for I noticed today that the wires were frayed near the connectors. It's always good to know I won't be risking burning down the theatre! The belden suggestion seems like a good one. Willing to venture a guess about this one?
RS232 Non-Paired Shielded Cable, 15 Cond, 24AWG : 4315

Thank you so much for all your help. I really appreciate it.
 
You're very welcome! I haven't checked out the link, but at first glance, that cable looks to meet the right specs. The good thing about analog is that it really doesn't care much about the wire it's running through as long as it's the proper gauge. You could truly run it down a barbed wire fence.

Others here may chime in about cable specifics/suggestions (not really my forte'), or Alan could certainly help if you give him a call. I really can't stress enough how friendly and knowledgeable he is. Also, I believe your board has those rotary potentiometers that control fade times and such. Just a heads-up, but you can't get those any more. Now... if you have a parts board on hand ;). That said, I know you don't want to keep this board in service for too long, but it looks like you have the right attitude with trying to improve what you have. You also seem to grasp the fact that these renovations can take years to materialize.

Your observation of fraying, etc is why I suggested doing a new cable run (been there - no fun!). Cinch-Jones connectors work for what they are, but they're not real sturdy. Especially if you are moving them around a lot. Also, with every connection, you gain resistance, so it's best to keep those points to a minimum.

Keep in mind that if you guys stumble on even a little bit of money, you can buy a protocol converter and connect a DMX board to your dimmers. There are some great systems out there ranging from really expensive to really cheap. Pathway Connectivity and Northlight have some of the cheapest solutions I've found, while Doug Fleenor Design could hook you up with a top-of-the-line (but pricey) system.
 
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I'm glad analog isn't very picky; it should make my job much easier.

Alan will certainly be getting a call in the very near future. I would like to hear his opinion of what could/should be done to this system to give it a little rehab. Our board DOES have rotary potentiometers for timers, but I will admit that I didn't even understand their function until last week when I got my hands on a manual for the board. I can't wait to test them the next time I get a chance.

A new cable does seem like the direction we'll go in. The benefits are certainly outweighing any nominal costs that we'll encounter.

It's funny you mention DMX to Analog converters. Just yesterday, I spent upwards of 4 hours combing the controlbooth forums and google, looking into that option. Since the dimmers seem to be immortal, not replacing them if we were to come into some money to purchase a new board with DMX would be really nice. I visited doug's site as well as northstar's, but was leery of the northstar implementation into the dimmers, but with Alan's help, it might be a very affordable option. I was unsure of pathway's ultimate DMX converter, due to the 2-7.6v vs 0-10 v debacle with the dimmers.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure what your control voltage is. I want to say the trouping boards like the TCC (and many SCRimmers) are 7.6, but Alan could tell you. He could possibly rehab your board if you needed to send it in. I know he is set up pretty well, but does have some limitations. Your board would definitely benefit from being opened up and thorougly cleaned, and he could advise you on how to go about that as well as what products to use for cleaning/re-lubing the sliders.

The dimmers would probably benefit from the same, but that will take some strict procedures since they will have to be taken completely offline and disconnected before the covers are taken off. There's surely some dust build-up in there that could use vacuuming.

Here's Alan's number: 503-781-7361.
 
School districts sometimes do not care if thing work or don't work, however if it becomes a safety and compliance issue, then money becomes available. We were able to get a full rehab due to this. Curtains were out of date for flame retardant, white asbestos cables, aged and cracking wiring inside the electrics, light sockets the went snap crackle and pop.

It may take an approach like this to get them to moving. Life safety is always a priority.
 
I am a freshman at my High School and we have an older system by Vara-Light. Its got a patch bay and 26 dimmers and 146 circuits, Its a pain and is the original system the school has been using for +30 years. I adapted to it, but its all analog and a pain to find a converter to go from analog to DMX. We have 2 boards (1,100 seat auditorium, really a theatre), we have a "back board" backstage that is analog that we are gonna have to replace soon, we usually use it for work light and sometimes choral concerts with simple lighting. We have the balcony board which isn't much better, it's a NSI MC 24/48 or something like that. One of the video ports is going bad and then if you dont save your work every half an hour it mixes all of your submasters and cues up, then you have to re-program. Our house lights are ran from this separate system that the analog board works off of and it's in the sound office which is by the balcony board but you have to run to it, bring down the house lights, then run back to board and go to your cue. Its really fun(sarcasm)!

We would have to shut down our theatre for a few months to upgrade to a new dimmer system and it would be over $60,000 because we have so many circuits and the system is analog, which means they have to run new cable and everything. So we had cam-locks installed in our "lighting cage" (which is where the dimmers are) and we just rent a ETC dimmer for our spring production.

You got it a bit better than I do! You should try to go LED. They use less power, are more portable, sometimes cheaper, and easy to use!
 
Thanks for the crash course in school district politics, lol. (no sarcasm intended) I was planning on compiling a report, listing the state of everything in the theatre and all possible problems (asbestos, cracked cable, fire retardantcy, etc.) and presenting it to the board. Hopefully safety and compliance issues would get through to them.
 
Wow, it sounds like you have it as bad as us, just differently. We don't have very much to begin with, so there isn't that much that can break. But you guys seem to have a lot that needs to be done. Best of luck with it in the future.
Renting a dimmer seems like a really good idea in your situation. Have you ever thought about renting a lighting board as well?

Going all LED would be the best option for our small stage, 32' wide, 23.5' deep, and 9' to the top curtain. But it's more likely that a meteor hits the auditorium than we get money a new lighting and sound system.
 
Wow, it sounds like you have it as bad as us, just differently. We don't have very much to begin with, so there isn't that much that can break. But you guys seem to have a lot that needs to be done. Best of luck with it in the future.
Renting a dimmer seems like a really good idea in your situation. Have you ever thought about renting a lighting board as well?

Going all LED would be the best option for our small stage, 32' wide, 23.5' deep, and 9' to the top curtain. But it's more likely that a meteor hits the auditorium than we get money a new lighting and sound system.

We rent a lighting board for our larger shows, if we rent smart lights and other large fixtures and effects. Our stage isnt to much bigger than yours! We dont use all 100 and something circuits, since either we dont know where they are or they are pockets in the stage floor that are filled with years of dust and dirt and dead things. We have a medium sized inventory of fixtures. We also have some old Strand Century's that we really never use unless we have to which is like never, I can see if my TD would be willing to give them to you if you want, there also taking up much needed space!
 
What lighting board do you typically rent? An ETC Element or Ion?

Our stage floor has been sealed soooooo many times that any chance of opening the pockets in the stage floor is laughable. Years of dust and dirt and dead things is right.

Our "inventory" literally consists, I kid you not, of 7 elipsoidal spots (one just died today), 2 fresnels, and three rows of striplights. If there would be any chance of getting additional lights, we'd jump at the chance. Ironically enough, what we lack in inventory, we make up for in storage space.
 
Hahahaha, Sounds like our theatre! Our pockets have roaches in them!

We currently have about 20 Source 4's, some Lens Tubes for them, 10 Fresnels, 5 Altman 360Q's, 5 Strand SL50's, and like 20 Strand Century Spots, and maybe 20 PAR64's. A lot of our stuff though is either missing a plug that we dont have or its missing some other part, or we dont have the lamp for it. The Century Spots our TD hates using and only uses them when necessary which is like 1 in a billion chance. We also have 2 Altman Comet follow spots on the catwalk, and a Lycilian Midget in the Balcony with the "better" board.
 
Roaches?! Okay, maybe you do win the "scary things that can be found in a electrical pocket in a stage floor" contest...
That is a pretty nice inventory for a stage of your size. Do you guys buy new lights every year, every other year, or whenever the board of ed. opens its pockets and gives you some money? We have two spotlights, Lycian Midgets. But the best part it is where we put them. There is no balcony, catwalk, or anything else but ceiling for the spotlights to go, so we put them on the end of the aisles, 3 or 4 rows from the back of the auditorium. It's always great to see the shadow of someone's head onstage as it blocks out the spotlight......
 
Oh thats nice...

We buy everything ourselves. We have a budget of like +10k for the fall and spring shows. Our stage is like 42 wide by 30 deep and around 35 high with a counter weight rigging system. I'll take some pics.
 

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