# Hog 250 - 500 - 1000

#### Daveslights

##### Member
I did a search and didn't find anything on this.

I'm looking at getting a hog 500, but may not be able to afford one so I was thinking about a hog 250. Does anyone know the differences, other than channel limitations?

I definitely want the 500, but may have to settle for now. I've been reading the Hog 500 manual and without the actual console in front of me I don't know what they mean by accessing the 'menu banks' through the key pad. The Hog 1000 has 4 menu banks, that the Hog 500 does not. Does anyone know the process of accessing more palettes that the one on the Hog 500?

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
I wouldn't buy a hog unless it was made by Flying Pig and not Jands. I've heard alot of bad stories about the Jands hog boards, but much more successes with the Hog 500 and Hog 1000 Flying Pig releases. I don't know the exact timeline of the Flying Pig takeover of the Hog line, but I know that Jands still sells the Hog 500 and Hog 1000.

Also, depending on the size of the gig, you could run out of channels on the 250 pretty fast...I'd go for a used Hog 500.

#### Dillon

##### Active Member
My Jands Hog 1000 runs great. No problems here. Plenty of memory and channels for my uses (all theatrical musical productions, 32 scrollers, 4 Mac550's, 250 conventional dimmers, 1 chameleon LED curtain).

To answer the original question... I'm not 100% sure, but without the menu banks (which is what I think you're telling me the 250 is lacking), you'll have to access the groups (or colors or positions or beam looks) by number (ie, [group] 5 [at] 99) much like an ETC Expression. One of the best things about the Hog IS those menu banks. Being able to label each of those buttons with a different group (or color or position or beam look) saves SO much time in cueing a show... no more having to remember channel or group numbers. I'd recommend getting yourself a 1000 (find the money somewhere), just for this feature alone. I have no idea what the difference is/will be between the Jands and Flying Pig models.

#### Daveslights

##### Member
I'm hoping to use the Hog 500 as a stepping stone to get to a 1000. Get the 500, save more money sell it and get a 1000.

I'm talking about the 4 sections at the top of the Hog 1000, which I think are the menu banks.

it looks like there is one accessible palette. So it sounds like your saying that in order to get to more palettes I would have to use the keypad, to type Group 2 @ Color and then the number of the cue I want?

#### SerraAva

##### Active Member
Its not quite like a ETC Express line. You take control of whatever lights or group you want, and then hit Position, Beam, or Color and a number to bring up that palette. So, fixture numbers or group (whatever number you want), enter, color (whatever number you want), enter. To view a palette list, press and hold the pig key and whatever palette list you want to view. Cues still work off of the palettes unlike an ETC console, which works off of what the value was at the time it was recorded.

The menu banks on the 1000 remove the extra key strokes above. Hit a group button or just select what you want and hit the palette button.

#### dj_illusions

##### Active Member
I reguarly use my friends Hog 250, but wish I didnt.... they arnt that user friendly and are very hard to update!

#### Daveslights

##### Member
Its not quite like a ETC Express line. You take control of whatever lights or group you want, and then hit Position, Beam, or Color and a number to bring up that palette. So, fixture numbers or group (whatever number you want), enter, color (whatever number you want), enter. To view a palette list, press and hold the pig key and whatever palette list you want to view. Cues still work off of the palettes unlike an ETC console, which works off of what the value was at the time it was recorded.
The menu banks on the 1000 remove the extra key strokes above. Hit a group button or just select what you want and hit the palette button.

Thanks SerraAva! Thanks makes sense now.

Does anybody know if you can access these palettes via a midi input or with something like the "X Keys" (http://www.piengineering.com/xkeys/xk12884.php)

#### derekleffew

##### Resident Curmudgeon
Senior Team
I'm late to this discussion, but wanted to try to clear up some misconceptions.

The Jands Hog 250 is NOT in the same class, nor does it use the same OS as the Hog 500 or 1000. Both of the latter use the tried and true FPS/HES WholehogII software. While High End Systems has discontinued the Hog 500 and 1000, they are still available from Jands, who has always made them, as I understand. I believe Jands has discontinued the Jands Hog 250, or so it appears on their website. The Hog 500 is perfectly acceptable and usable, provided one doesn't need more than one universe. It has one bank of eight palettes, and the user must press <group> <position> <color> or <beam> first to access them, or <pig color> to open them on the external monitor and select them from the screen with the cursor.

I can't speak to the Jands Hog 250, having never used it, but I would go with nothing less than the Hog 500. Just my 2¢.

Rather than "settle" for the Jands Hog 250, I think you would be much happier with Hog3PC and the appropriate programming wing and widget. But first, see this thread.

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#### Daveslights

agreed that I would be much happier with HogPC, but after the widget and programing wing i'm looking at almost $6k that doesn't even include a playback wing. #### derekleffew ##### Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member #### tgates ##### Member I use a hog 600 now and again, which is the same software as the 250 but with twice the playbacks and channels. I guess I should start off with given the choice between a hog 250 and say, a ETC Expression 2 to run moving lights or effects with conventionals, I'd take the Hog. However, unless you are getting some fantastic deal or absolutely need all those handles, I'd tend to say "not worth it" compared to other options. The hog 250/500s have different software then the hog 500/1000, which as far as know, uses the HogII OS. One big problem with the 250/600 for instance is that there isn't an effects editor like the HogII, so you are stuck with the effects that are built in. Also, you can't move profiles, effects, much less show files between the 500/1000/HogII. The 250's whole software (and documentation) just feels unfinished. On the whole, unless it's a show where I really need lots of handles, I tend to prefer going with our shop's Maxxyz PC, especially if it's a scripted show, or show I know very well. The time lost in using a mouse over buttons is easy enough to make up in the nice programing features of the newer boards. So on the whole, I'd recommend going for the PC versions of hog, maxxyz, vista or MA, if you are really strapped for cash. The playback and programing wings tend to be rather expensive, but you can add those latter as your budget and need requires. Also, watch out, some of the 500s also use the old 250/600 software, so be sure to get a 500 that can support the newer software. #### derekleffew ##### Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member Thanks, tgates, for backing me up. Rarely do I use anything other than the WholehogII and full-size grandMA, so I'll admit I was on slightly shaky ground. Tell us more about the MaxxyzPC, i.e. is there a "control surface" available? (The one area where the grandMA line seems to be lacking, in my opinion, but I understand they don't want to cut their profits.) You seem to have slipped into ControlBooth unnoticed. Drop by the New Member Board and start a thread introducing yourself. We love "fresh meat" here. Tell us where you are and what you've done, and where you'd like to be and what you'd like to do. #### tgates ##### Member The 'wing' you get for the full sized maxxyz console is just standard USB, so you just install the drivers on the PC and plug it in and it works just fine with the software to give you 10 physical go, back and flying faders. I've done this myself on a few shows. There is no programming wing, but, martin is saying that the next version of the maxxyz, coming out in a year or so, will be modular to the point you can simply buy the programming or playback module and hook it up to the MAXXYZ PC. The prototype for the MAXXYZ compact was built modularly this way. In fact, everything on the current full sized maxxyz is USB internally, so it seems perfectly reasonable that they'd make good on this idea of modularization and interconnection with PCs. I don't know what sort of cost of the control surfaces will be, but I believe the current playback wing is in the$3-4k range.

Anyway, here I am posting early Christmas morning when I should be sleeping! Happy Holidays everyone.

#### Daveslights

##### Member
Can anyone tell me how you would operate a Hog500 on the fly?

How do you recall positions at different fade times as well as changing color and beam settings.

For example, if you had 4 movers pointed at the ceiling in blue with a gobo, and you wanted to slowly (3 seconds) hit the crowd in white open gobo and then quickly move to a different position in Green with a different gobo

does this all need to be pre programmed in a cue list or can you actually do it live?

I've been reading the manual and it doesn't say much about that, it leads me to believe that it's hard to do without it being in a cuelist.

thanks

Senior Team