Hog iPC and Strand Shownet

DHSLXOP

Active Member
Hi All -

I'm debating between bringing in an MA or a Hog iPC for my next show. I am attending Hog training in a few weeks, and have used the MA a number of times, but I can get the the Hog for a lower rental rate than the MA. Here's my question: My space is running Strand Shownet. When I usually bring in the MA, I am able to just hook up through the ethernet on the console. I seem to remember having an issue doing this with the Hog when a company brought one in a few years back. I believe that they were running their own Hog Node to connect to our network. I haven't run a hog in the space since this show 2 years ago, and I was only a student working in the theatre at the time, so I don't remember much about this anyway. Would there be anything specific that I would need to do or make sure I rent to ensure that this would work with the iPC?

Thanks in advance! Any help is much appreciated!
 
So looking at your situation here are the pros and cons to each system you could go with. First look at the Hog iPC, it make sense because it is a less expensive console to do what your looking for. You can use it in networking things as well as mentioned before. The draw back's you will have though is your protocols, the iPC is not set up to easily recognize etc net 2 and 3, pathport, strand show net or any other kind of propriataryish protocol. Also keep in mind the iPC is a finickey console as it was ment to be a stop gap in between the Hog 2 being phased out and the issues that plagued the Hog 3 for some 7 years. Its an unsupported console now as it is no longer made, so keep that in mind. You would also need to use dp8000 to go in between the console and all your universes, which is a high end systems made unit, they made everything very propritary. Now with the MA, which I am biased on, I am an MA programmer you have a lot of advantages. First wether you use a series 1 or 2, in your setup menu for your network you have a drop down menu for whatever protocol you may want to use inluding ETC net 2 and 3, pathport and strand shownet. This will make it very easy for the console to begin to recognize your nodes once they are connected to your network. Also if you decide to use and NSP or NPU, depending if you use a series 1 or 2 its very very easy to connect a hub/ network switch to the console and get that talking to the board so you get more universes. Which ever the case its super easy to change whatever universe you want to send where and very stable and dependable. As far as your node question they can be used for any thing that takes DMX 512 protocol not just moving light's. This can be dimmer racks, hazers, lasers, scroller's, sea changer's, LSG's etc. The node is an I/O it converts the ethernet signal to a DMX 512 signal. If you want to learn more about using the MA I would suggest checking this out, ACT Lighting | Training also you can contact A.C.T's offices the closes one to you would be in New Jersey. It may be more expensive but as with anything you get what you pay for.
 
I have actually attended ACT's MA training before. As much as I love working on the MA, I really think I will have to go with the hog on this show. It is just cheaper, and I would rather put my budget into renting more lights than get fewer lights for the MA. Can you explain a little more about the dp8000 and how I would use it? I know for a fact that a road hog has controlled our dimmers before, but I'm not sure how.
 
I have very limited experience with both Hog and MA, but in theory, as long as there is a way to send DMX from the console to your dimmers and devices, you can use any console you want.

All the consoles on the market today that support any kind of networking use standard TCP/IP protocols to communicate with network hardware. So, the network infrastructure you have in place will work with any system you bring in. The only difference between a Strand ShowNet, ETCNet, MANet, Hognet, etc., is the hardware that is connected. Your Hog console may not be able to talk to a Strand DMX node/gateway, but if you plug your Hog in and a Hog node/gateway in they should talk to eachother just fine.

So, if you want to rent a console that doesn't speak the same language as your house system, you may just have to rent a couple DMX nodes/gateways that work with the console you are renting.

My question to you is: what is your house console and why do you feel the need to rent something else? (not saying you shouldn't, just wondering)
 
The house console is a Strand Palette. The show I'm bringing in will probably be using at least 10 movers and a bunch of LEDs and scrollers, so I'd rather have a moving light console. I know the palette can do it, but I like the control on the Hog or MA much more.

So, in theory, I should be able to connect the hog to our network to control our house dimmers, and then get a hog node, plug it into one of our net taps on an electric and run the dmx line out of that to the movers or LEDs?
 
The dp8000 will expand to 8 extra dmx universes from the ipc, Its the same idea as an NPU or NSP with the MA. I believe you will need to run the iPC in hog 3 software and not 2. Im curious why your are looking to run everything through the strand show net? You would have plenty of universes to run everything from your console and the dp8000. I would not see it necessary to bother with the strand net. The problem you will run into with doing strand net on the hog is that since it is not a supported protocol you will have to go through everything and assign your I.P's and sub net masks and to be honest there is not guarante it will work easily. I would reccomend to get the hog with a dp8000 that way you can run everything on an isolated system and since it all talks through hog net it will work together. You will also have extra universes im assuming in case something were to go wrong you can switch a cable to another plug and reassign the universe through the console quick. This would not be as easy if you were using nodes as you would need to know all your I.P's and sub nets and have to dial stuff in on the console and possiobly on the node with the external software and laptop to assign it. Its not the most ideal in a crunch situation. It is true that all of this is TCP/IP protocols and its all the same info being sent over the physical cables but what it comes down to is your ease of communication because of propriatarey hardware and software. There is also the ease of assignability which can bone you hard in a crunch or during show. So if your not going with the MA then i would say get your iPC and the dp8000 and you can set it up in the booth next to the console or possibly back stage or by your dimmer rack at dimmer beach, whatever works best for you. Then after assigning stuff run the physical DMX cables to wherever you will need them. Another advantage to doing it this way is when working with the nodes you need to be careful with how you assign the I.P's. If you accidently assign the same one to more then one node nothing will talk to each other in your network.
 
One question... How is your space running Strand ShowNet, but you have ETCnet nodes in your space? Last time I check the protocols are not cross compatible...

Either way:

With the iPC not being able to speak ETCnet or Shownet, you would be relying on the DP8000 do to the network translation from HogNet to either of those protocols. In my experience the DP8000's do not like to do that much network translation on the fly, and I have had multiple units crash on me during show, even brand new units from HES. My suggestion would be to go from the iPC>DMX Out ->Into a ETCnet Node or Shownet, what ever flavour you have. skip the DP8000 altogether and just go hardline DMX into a, Strand or ETC node. Saves a conversion step and less things to go wrong. Both Strand and ETCnet nodes are easily configurable to accept DMX in with their respective software.
 
Either way:

With the iPC not being able to speak ETCnet or Shownet, you would be relying on the DP8000 do to the network translation from HogNet to either of those protocols. In my experience the DP8000's do not like to do that much network translation on the fly, and I have had multiple units crash on me during show, even brand new units from HES. My suggestion would be to go from the iPC>DMX Out ->Into a ETCnet Node or Shownet, what ever flavour you have. skip the DP8000 altogether and just go hardline DMX into a, Strand or ETC node. Saves a conversion step and less things to go wrong. Both Strand and ETCnet nodes are easily configurable to accept DMX in with their respective software.

I agree with this. The simplest way to bring in a desk and make sure that it can control all your gear is to just run hardline DMX from the desk to your gear. Run a DMX line to the dimmers and to your MLs and LEDs.



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As simple as it seems, I can't just run a cable from my console to my dimmers. My booth is on the opposite side and on a different floor of the building than where my dimmers are. So it's just not feasible to run a cable like that.
 
One question... How is your space running Strand ShowNet, but you have ETCnet nodes in your space? Last time I check the protocols are not cross compatible...

Either way:

With the iPC not being able to speak ETCnet or Shownet, you would be relying on the DP8000 do to the network translation from HogNet to either of those protocols. In my experience the DP8000's do not like to do that much network translation on the fly, and I have had multiple units crash on me during show, even brand new units from HES. My suggestion would be to go from the iPC>DMX Out ->Into a ETCnet Node or Shownet, what ever flavour you have. skip the DP8000 altogether and just go hardline DMX into a, Strand or ETC node. Saves a conversion step and less things to go wrong. Both Strand and ETCnet nodes are easily configurable to accept DMX in with their respective software.

Would this definitely work? It would be idea to skip the DP8000, as I can easily get another node to use in the booth with the console.

I only ever use nodes when I bring in they MA. We have a permanent Strand Node for our rep LED Cyc Lights (since they need to regularly interface with a Stand Palette. Otherwise, I am using the MA and moving lights or additional LEDs or scrollers and use the nodes only on the light end, not on the console. My entire space is wired with ethernet, but without DMX ports.

It is possible that I have some of my names confused, but I don't think I do.
 
Skip the DP8000. This will work, just need a bit more info...

How do you control your dimmers are they C21's on the network? If yes, then get another node, and configure it to be your DMX universes in. Utilize the existing infrastructure instead of running new cable.
 
Another question on this topic...
Right now I am running hog 3 pc on my laptop with a hog widget, while I await my console rental to arrive. I have it plugged directly into the dmx input in the booth. It works fine when controlling my dimmers, but I can't get it to control my LED CYC Lights. The CYC lights are plugged in through a DMX to Ethernet converter, which is connected to our network. Does anyone have any ideas why I can't get the CYC Lights to come up with the console. When I plug directly into the light, it works fine, so I know my patch is correct. I just can't get it to work when they are on the network.
 
I think I realized that, while they are on the same universe, consoles plugged into the dmx input, instead of the network input, cannot control things that are connected to the network. I guess it makes sense, I just hadn't thought of it before.
 
Another question on this topic...
Right now I am running hog 3 pc on my laptop with a hog widget, while I await my console rental to arrive. I have it plugged directly into the dmx input in the booth. It works fine when controlling my dimmers, but I can't get it to control my LED CYC Lights. The CYC lights are plugged in through a DMX to Ethernet converter, which is connected to our network. Does anyone have any ideas why I can't get the CYC Lights to come up with the console. When I plug directly into the light, it works fine, so I know my patch is correct. I just can't get it to work when they are on the network.

Is it a DMX to Ethernet converter (to run DMX over Cat5), or a DMX node from a certain manufacturer, designed to work on a network?
 

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