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Hog3PC for ML busking

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Radiant, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Radiant

    Radiant Active Member

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    How suitable is a Hog3PC with one playback wing for busking a moderate sized rig? I was able to get a few minutes on a Hog iPC a few months ago, and really liked it. We currently have (4) Coemar ProSpot 250 XLs, (2)MAC 600s, (12) ADJ LED PARs, and 42 dimmer channels. I put in a proposal this week to purchase quite a number of movers, realistically far more than I expect to get, along with a Hog3PC. But hopefully we'll be getting more gear soon!
    Anyway, with our style of music and our current Leprecon console, I program in little shallow playbacks, usually less than 8 scenes, and recall them on the fly. But with the Hog it seems that one is able to recall color, position, gobo, and effect settings, independent of a recorded scene. So how does the playback wing figure into things? Would I be able to use it to, for instance, control the speed of a strobe effect or speed of a movement?
    How hindered will I be without any touch screens?
    Without beginning a whole "my console is better than yours" war, is there a better solution? Our budget is slim, hence the Hog 3PC, a used playback wing (only because I insisted), and freebie computer.
     
  2. sound_nerd

    sound_nerd Active Member

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    It should work fine for the small rig you mentioned. The only problem I can think you'll run into with no touchscreens and no programming wing is just that, the programming. It might take some time, a bit longer than you'd like, to get things done using the keyboard and mouse.
    Hog3PC is a great choice though, I just spec'd it on a new PAC here, it's expandable and reliable, and almost every touring LD can at least program basic scenes on it.
     
  3. soundlight

    soundlight Well-Known Member

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    For programming, I'd recommend the $160 Programming Wing. Basically, it's your generic shortcut keyboard, but it's got the right key layout to adapt to Hog. It really speeds things up. There's even a Hog PC template.
     
  4. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Don't fret over lack of a touchscreen. I find that I can be just as fast, or faster, with a trackball and clicking, as I can "fat-fingering" the wrong thing on a screen. I also found it faster to not take my fingers off the keypad on a HogII. Right hand lives on the numeric keypad and left hand pushes all other buttons. I find it really silly and tedious to watch some programmers try to use the pop-up keypad or keyboard on a touchscreen. By the time they've pushed the second letter I would have had the cue/palette/whatever labeled and moved on to the next task.
     
  5. zac850

    zac850 Well-Known Member

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    Invest in a programing wing, as it will save you a lot of time in programing. You could do what soundlight suggested if your on a tight budget, though I'd try and spend the money (rent it if you want) and get the real programing wing so that you can get the encoders. It would save you a lot of time down the road.

    I ran a show recently with 6 Mac2ks and around 96 dimmer channels off a Hog2PC and it worked perfectly well. A touch screen would be very nice to speed playback up, though not necessary IMO, I'm fast enough with a trackball (though, if you have one, go for it).
     
  6. Grog12

    Grog12 CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

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    I'm gonna have to go with the crowd on this....the programing wing will be quicker for busking/programing in general than the playback wing.
     
  7. Radiant

    Radiant Active Member

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    I'm not too concerned with time spent programming, before the service. But, is the programming wing utilized for playback too? When I got a look at the iPC, the board op didn't touch the programming wing, just the touch screens and playback wing. Frankly, I didn't understand what the playback wing was doing!

    I guess I'm just hoping that a well-stocked palette of focus, color, effect, etc. will let me bring up looks quickly. Our band is so unpredictable that I rarely bother programming a playback specifically for a song. So, with only a playback wing, mouse, and keyboard, will I be able to keep pace with the band?

    (I may be able to squeeze a programming wing into the proposal too, if it's really necessary. The staff had a meeting yesterday to discuss the proposal, and had a bunch of last-minute price questions. I high-balled a few things, so maybe there'd be room.)
     
  8. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    A programing wing will save time programing. However, if your band is unpredictable as you state, I would try to go for the programmer wing as well since you will be able to grab groups and palettes much faster on the fly that way. You will also be able to adjust BPM, Crossfade, and Rate with the programing wing much faster, so you can speed up or slow down chases as needed. You can do it with a mouse or track ball, but it is much faster with the wing if you needed to grab something.

    If you had touch screens, I agree the programing wing isn't really all that necessary, but since one programing wing is cheaper then two touch screens, I would go with the wing on a budget. It is not to say that the wing would become useless if you bought touch screens in the future either.

    I mainly use a Hog IPC or Roadhog for most of the shows I do. I can tell you that I use the touch screens by far the most, then the programing wing, followed by the playback wing. The shows I mainly do however are rehearsed and I have to be programed fairly quickly. If I had to do a band who move all over on the fly, my choices would be the playback and programing wing on a budget, then adding touch screens later when the chance arrived.
     
  9. Radiant

    Radiant Active Member

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    So, what exactly does the playback wing do? Can it be assigned to control different parameters of effects? Or is it only for cue list playback?
     
  10. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    The playback wing are your cuelists. You can make each list into anything you want it to be. One list can control nothing but color, while another list controls movement and intensity, another gobos, and another to control all of them. For what you are doing, you are talking about having different scenes, chases, and bally-hos on each list so you can move and adapt to what the band is doing. The play back wing is prefect for this because you can program your scenes, chases, and bally-hos, then run which ever one you want quickly. You can also run as many as you want at a time. The playback wing will also give you quick access to pause, release, and start different bally-hos, chases, and/or scenes.

    What the programing wing does is let's you grab palettes and groups on the fly. Let's say you programed a bally-ho with red colored movers in it, but you want them to be blue for this scene. You can hit Group, whatever number you grouped those movers to, Color, whatever number blue is, Enter. They will all then turn blue. You can also update the lists blind if you know you have something coming up in a song which needs to be blue before hand. You can also grab stuff and add it quickly to a scene, like blue back light. Just hit Group, whatever number you blue back light group is, @, whatever intensity you want, then Enter or just hit Full for 100%.

    The programing wing will let you do fast edits on the fly, where as the playback wing will give you scene, chase, and bally ho control on the fly. If you just ran it off your computer with a mouse/track ball, you will be all over the place with the mouse/track ball and short cut keys. It is much faster with the wings. I would agree that the playback wing should be your priority followed by the programing wing.
     
    Radiant likes this.
  11. Jezza

    Jezza Active Member

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    Serra-

    -I've found that even for busking, it should be avoided to need to pull values or activate values in the programmer unless absolutely necessary -- IE using the actual programmer during a show. I know things happen and you want to adjust things on the fly, but then you have to deal with "Clear" and dumping whatever values are in the programmer instantaneously or dealing with giving the fixtures two different kinds of information -- one from a cue stack and one from the programmer -- which as you might know, can become pretty messy on a very frenetic show.

    -The way I was thought was thusly.

    -If its a TRUE busking show, and you've got no cue list or anything, I would suggest separating out ALL your parameters to different cue stacks IE Fader 1 = Intensity for all MLs Fader 2 = Color (each cue has a different color -- using the Play button, the colors can be advanced or the "GO TO" command to pick a specific color)

    Similarly, Gobos, Scenes, Positions, Effects (color, intensity, movement, etc) should all be placed on their own faders. Additionally, reserve one or two faders for the big looks that you've already programmed that will be the basis for the show, song, whatever.

    This way, you can set the faders to LTP and include an appropriate release time so you can a. override anything on stage using a cue from another stack instead of the programmer b. not deal with dumping things out of the programmer quickly and c. ensure maximum and control without the need for a programming wing.

    I think this style of programming might serve better in the case of not having a programming wing on a 3PC setup. This allows the user programmer "like" control during a show, without actually needing to active values in the programmer.
     
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  12. SerraAva

    SerraAva Active Member

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    Ah, but thats the beauty of the Update key, saves it quickly, and you get to choose what to save and where. And doing things Blind are much faster with a programing wing, I often edit and run cues at the same time for upcoming parts of the song or next song if I know what it is. Also, if its a band you work with often, you should get something for each song. It's just figuring out which song is next is the hard part.
     

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