Vintage Lighting Holy old lighting equipment, Batman!
- Thread starterGrimtheatre
- Start date
See this thread: http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/14061-allright-old-timers.html. If no Century markings, probably an Altman clone, judging from the shape of the Tee handle on the tilt lock (although I can't find a similar Altman model in Photometrics Handbook).
Is that a 6" or 8" step lens in a 10" housing? Is the lamp cap missing or not pictured? Why is your person holding it upside down? Looks like the color frame has already fallen out.
Is that a 6" or 8" step lens in a 10" housing? Is the lamp cap missing or not pictured? Why is your person holding it upside down? Looks like the color frame has already fallen out.
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On a quick glance it looks an awful lot like a small version of a Kliegl Bros fixture we used to use at an Outdoor theatre. Most of them were 10 - 12 " Dia. and about half again as long as the one pictured here.
Les
Well-Known Member
I'd say 10" unless those are small hands!
Based on the hardware,as Derek described - (especially the stamped diamond symbol on the tee-handle) and the brown paint, I say Altman. Though something inside me says Kliegl. That yoke washer and it's dish-like shape looks just like the ones they [Altman] still use on their 6" fresnels.
Based on the hardware,as Derek described - (especially the stamped diamond symbol on the tee-handle) and the brown paint, I say Altman. Though something inside me says Kliegl. That yoke washer and it's dish-like shape looks just like the ones they [Altman] still use on their 6" fresnels.
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Front looks like a Century to me, rear nothing I have ever seen before. I think 8" but possible otherwise. The rear is problematic in nothing I have seen before, inner feeling almost like a Strand concept though doubtful. Dating say mid-60's as a guess given the axial mount? Kliegl by than was onto the double ended halogen lamp though not so much for such a lens size. Still I think wrong color and front end for Kliegl.
Again who made the reflector as a question also who made the lampholder. Not sure what Major was doing during this period and no idea of Times Square, L&E or Display Stage Lighting, I do know that Major was making Century reflectors at this time and at least for Fresnels I believe they were GE on the base.
Seems in color as if Century also for me in impresson and especially style of the front half. Look on the rear of the reflector for a Major decal and that might confirm my assumption, though by this time Century will have had yoke knobs casted with their name and probably IA stickers on the yoke. Such a IA local sticker could lead one to where it was made. This if not a Century name plate or fixture marking. I know my own Century 8x?16 Lekos of perhaps slightly earlier were of a different color and more flat in paint and sand paper texture but later Century Lekos being similar design and color. The early ones have decals saying what they are, the later ones I don't think have such a name plate on them though it's been years since I have seen such fixtures. Perhaps this is a Century Strand fixture overall in concept.
Altman... while on the market at this point I don't think they were inventing their own designs for fixtures yet in this way given the 360 vs. 360Q designs in very different than this design and or paint on it. Altman I don't think it is. Possible the others above amongst other companies but the color to me and front to me still says Century.
Paint tells a lot about a fixture in that period, flat rocky and sandpapery in rough finish, rocky but glossy or smooth. Altman by now was smooth but wrong color.
The yoke knob or yoke break knob seems as if classic Altman 360 style (and could be a replacement) but such a yoke knob was more a store bought design a few companies used at that point if I'm correct. Assuming it's a yoke beak as as opposed to the during the period geared yoke clutch design Altman used, we still see a standardized part for knob but a different one in that I doubt one would design a fixture with like a 1.1/4" bolt in male form sticking thru the clutch break assembly - given normally it's a female knob. This length of the bolt would prevent the pivet of the fixture.
More details of the pivot assembly, reflector, lampholder and lamp cap in general in detail would be useful. How do you bench focus the thing? What are the shutter knobs like? Similar to Altman in using the dual or single fiber washers? How do you open it to clean reflector?
Curious fixture given pre-focus base but one that's axial, constantly fascinating the fixtures on the market during this period. Way too bad there isn't much records existing on the subject. My feeling, Century but hopefully with more info and research you find its source.
Scooby Doo Mystery Hunt begun again.
Step lenses.... not a big deal for such a large lens, seen them often over the years, many companies used them. Kopp glass?
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Yes screams even if color blind in bing an awesome gel sorter due to it, as with the knobs and cone washers on the yoke bolts.
For me, look at the shape of the front on the other hand even as presented in Photometrics Handbook. While the color shold be a more gray for Colortran, it's a classic Colortran front and my radial 8x16 Colortran are rock sandpaper like black thus during this period a color change.
Good question given the paint verses front assembly what brand it is. While Century/Strand was grey also, I still think it Century as a base perhaps with an off color. Way too late in being axial for the train wreck of gear Altman I'm told at one point began with in printing their name on and followed with. (Forget who's gear Altman began with retailing I was told about, a bit of a search back into records on the forum would be more accurate in this case of who's gear they began selling.) The fixture just don't seem Altman to me other than parts that could have been replaced in time and or the overall paint color in question. Yep the paint color is a major question in leading to Altman but one that I don't think will lead to direct result.
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I think we have a winner, see 3300.pdf. Odd that none of these are in the Photometrics Handbook. The ones of these I've used in the past had a course texture black paint however.
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If that is it, why would an ellipsoidal have a fresnel lens such as the one pictured?
I've worked at a theatre once that had some lights like those. As far as I know the theatre didn't have any Altman inventory, but a lot of old Century equipment. Is it possible they both made a light similar to that?
Also a quick look through my photometrics book, I found a Colortran 9 degree model which looks exactly the same as the mystery light (2nd edition page 315). The only difference I see from the picture are the holes on the back of the instrument just behind the yoke.
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JChenault
Well-Known Member
First - to be pedantic - It's not a fresnel lens, it's a step lens. In a fresnel lens, the flat side of the lens is a flat continuous shape - and the curved side of the lens is 'jagged'. In a step lens the curved side is continuous, and the flat side is jagged ( or stepped ).
Why do you want this? If you are designing a fixture that has a long throw, you need a large diameter lens. If you build the lens out a solid piece of glass, it gets pretty thick in the middle. When you heat it up ( say with a lamp) it tends to break. A step or fresnel lens removes glass so the lens is lighter and less likely to break.
In theatre usage, ( before the Source 4) a fresnel lens was usually cast, cheap, and has a pebble diffusion on it to make the light more diffuse. A step lens was usually ground, no diffusion, and more expensive.
Step lenses were common in larger fixtures, with larger lenses. Instead of putting two lenses in the fixture, you put a single step lens in it. The field was not absolutely smooth due to the rings, but it was not bad, and it was the only way to get a long throw unit.
Even today, the longer throw Souce 4's have fresnel lenses in them. These are not the cheap fresnel lenses you get in a Fresnel ( the fixture type ) but are made of plastic.
Indeed they both made a similar fixture; again, see the thread: Allright old timers.... Much of Altman's early fixtures were copies of Century's (or copies of fixtures of Capitol Stage Lighting, which is where Charles Altman worked before founding Altman).
I believe that is actually an Altman 3300, with Colortran's name on it.
Good explanation, JChenault. Minor correction: both Fresnel and Step lenses are pressed glass, rather than ground. Plano convex and bi-convex lenses are made of ground glass. Only the outer surfaces refract light, so theoretically removing the material in between makes no difference. The problem comes when light hits the "steps" that are perpendicular to the flat surface. On a step lens, these risers are painted black, wich leads to concentric rings visible in the beam. On a Fresnel, the flat surface is textured or stippled, to slightly diffuse the light. On the ETC SourceFour 5° and 10° ERSs, a "micro-groove plastic fresnel lens" is used as glass would be too heavy. This lens is similar to that used on the bed of an overhead projector.
JD
Well-Known Member
Man, I hate it when things are called "old" or "Antique" and I remember when they first came out!
Actually, on the lenses, they are pretty much all molded. The edges are often ground, but to actually "grind" an 8 inch lens would cost over $1000. They do a heck of a job these days on casting them! Even many video lenses these days are cast.
Actually, on the lenses, they are pretty much all molded. The edges are often ground, but to actually "grind" an 8 inch lens would cost over $1000. They do a heck of a job these days on casting them! Even many video lenses these days are cast.
I know this is an old thread but I just happened across it.
That instrument definitely looks like a clone, however if it's the same as the several I've got stashed in our dimmer dungeon waiting for a rebuild, then it's a clone manufactured by Hub Electric Co. from Illinois. We have quite a bit of old Hub kit that I've been trying to keep going including clones of mostly Altman, and Century instruments. When I get a chance I'll snap some pics and post them.
That instrument definitely looks like a clone, however if it's the same as the several I've got stashed in our dimmer dungeon waiting for a rebuild, then it's a clone manufactured by Hub Electric Co. from Illinois. We have quite a bit of old Hub kit that I've been trying to keep going including clones of mostly Altman, and Century instruments. When I get a chance I'll snap some pics and post them.
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