How do I go about doing this?

[XENGS]

Greetings everyone!
My first post on controlbooth
Here's the situation; I'm running sound and lighting for my school's theatrical play in about a week - The venue will be a small community (Not sure if that's the right word, aka. free-to-use) theater. I'll be attaching some photos in the end so you can see what the rig looks like more or less.

Last year it was an absolute disaster; I spent all my time trying to troubleshoot an issue with their Audio console cancelling out the signal from my interface and trying to get a broken Behringer GEQ to work. The house guy was actually not present, and when he eventually got there, he just started swearing excessively about two or three uncoiled cables the previous guys had left (Which was odd to say the least; It's just two cables man, chiil out!)
After I figured out the problem with the audio console, I went on with the lighting - This is were it gets weird. For some reason they've split the rig into two desks; a scenesetter 48 for all of the LEDs and an SGM studio 24 handling all of the conventionals. I knew how to program a scenesetter, but I had never worked on the SGM before - And guess what. He didn't know either... I mean, how's that possible? You're the house guy, it's your job, just spend 5 minutes to go through the manual!!! So I had to work with what I was given. Some pre-set scenes and some lights pointed all over the place. Seriously. It was a disaster. The best part was when I actually went home after the show and checked out the manual, turns out programming the SGM was as simple as pressing the grab button and selecting a fader.

This year it's going to be different. I'll be bringing my Behringer XR16 along to handle the audio, that way I won't have to be messing around for hours trying to work around broked EQs, weird consoles and unlabeled snakes. As for lighting, I'll be bringing my second laptop with me to control all of the LED lighting as I find the scenesetter cumbersome - I'd love to patch in the conventionals as well, but unfortunately I only have one universe of output.
Aaand since I know how to use the SGM this time, I'll be able to focus the lights properly.
So after all this long boring story here are my questions;
- The rig consists of some conventional profiles at FOH. I think they're 8 (?) but one or two had burnt out lamps. I'm trying to get a lighting plot to be sure, but If I can't (I doubt they would've taken the time to make an actual plot tbh), I may go over and check it out for myself. The play is unfortunately split Left-Right most of the time. Meaning I'll have to light up JUST the left and JUST the right of the stage as well as I can. All of the times I've been there, the FOH profiles had been shuttered square and pointing straight ahead. This allowed great control as far as Left-Right is concerned, but I wasn't particularly happy with the shades. Is it the norm? Should I try and get a 45* (or probably less) angle? Maybe I'll loose too much output by doing so? How would you approach this? If I do, should I try and shutter off the sides other than the top and bottom as well, or will it look ugly? If I remember correctly the profiles were variable zoom so that allows for some more flexibility.
- Would it be reasonable/normal (is that the right word?) to change the address on some of the LED fixtures (3-4 fixtures - and obviously get them back to their previous ones after the show)? The thing is they had to fit all of the LED pars into a 48 channel board (so they're pretty much patched in groups), and I'm coming in with a 512 one. I want to take advantage of it for some scenes where it really would make a difference.

I'm probably gonna come up with more questions down the line. I originally got into sound like 6 years ago, so I have some decent experience as far as that is concerned, but only got into lighting seriously last year - And my questions probably show it. Please go easy on me
Anyway, here are some pics of the venue I found on google (most recent ones I could find as there's been a few changes over the years), just a I promised.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-rHzo6KWN...OsZ4cf3D4atjSO8xYGRvHgCLcB/s1600/IMG_1144.JPG

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Cs3gDU44ib4/V3D4bAon11I/AAAAAAAAA40/6RFVTpgdmH03fsIvS4lZsKyYEBVGtZtIQCKgB/s1600/%2818%29.JPG

http://blog.nyxtamera.gr/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/dance_modern_02.jpg

Thanks a lot!
Cheers

P.S. Sorry if this is the wrong category for this kind of post, wasn't sure where to post it...

 

[RickR]

Welcome to CB! This looks like the right place to me too!

A lot of your plan will depend on how much time and effort you can put into changing the rig, and yes, putting it back. Re-addressing the LEDs sounds good. Some even come with modes that use fewer channels for just such occasions. The best bet is to get a manual and really learn what they can do.

On the console end, you might look into renting or borrowing a DMX splitter so you do everything from one console, the SGM or your laptop. Some of the DMX dongles are pretty cheap and you might get to use 2. That will depend on the software you are using.

When I do a 2 sided show I try not to adjust the general lights, assuming they are doing a good job. Most directors aren't very good at restricting the actors to exactly half the stage. With overlapping areas you will lose some of the center anyhow. So I plan to use the center area for both sides, even if I have to sneak it in during the scene. That way I can do a full stage wash (curtain call if nothing else) without a big dark spot right in the middle. Down center stage is too important and powerful to give up for any show gimmick.

Straight on front lights vs 45 pairs is often a matter of fixture quantity. But the photos show a lot of side light. You may have the 45s in a 4 point system; front, 2 sides, back. This actually takes even more fixtures and gives a different range of color mixing possibilities. However it is much harder to segregate side light to one side of the stage. That is double true if the actors and director look at the stage floor and to decide where they can go. Faces go dark while the foot is lit! I suggest you try to draw your own plot just so you really understand what each light is doing. Turn each on by itself and look carefully at the area it covers and at what angle. Best if you can do that from the seats with someone onstage so you can see the face shadows. Once you understand what you really have and you've thought about the work to change it you can plan the best course. You will probably learn a lot about lighting in the process!

And feel free to post more questions as they come up. We are a large and active group with a huge range of experience and points of view.

 

[XENGS]

Thanks!

I'd certainly want to handle everything from one console, but it's unlikely to happen; The leds and dimmers are all addressed somewhere between ch1 thru 48, if I were to use a splitter there would be plenty of overlapping channels.. There's no way I'm readdressing more than a few LEDs, and I really don't wanna touch the dimmers. The SGM is a 48 channel (or dual-preset 24 channel) desk so it wouldn't fit everything either...

I'll be using a cheap uDMX interface (which accepts ArtNet through a "translator") with MA software (I've built some presets & cuelists, I'm hoping I could get there, patch & clone the fixtures, and be done with some little reprogramming)... I'll see if I can get ahold of an Artnet node for a second universe, but I highly doubt it.

What do you mean by General lights? Those that stay the same throughout most of the play? You are absolutely correct about the center area, I'll keep it in mind
I forgot to mention, there's actually a few more LEDs on the walls just in front of the stage. I can't find any photo to show you, but I don't think they're actually all that far back, so they probably count more as side lights than front lights. Anyway, I'm thinking I might keep the FOH fixtures pointing straight (With the exception maybe of a 45* pair for the whole stage?) - That would also give a sharp cutoff which should keep the actors from going off to unlit areas. Then I can work a bit more with the sidelights just like you said.
Speaking of sidelights, do you think I should bring a few up just a little bit? As you can see in the photos they don't really do much off to the sides when dim, and I bet 99% there will be actors standing in the far edges of the stage during the split parts...

Another thing that came up; There's a small part where the director wants me to shoot some lights into the audience (up where the control booth is) for a split second, where an actor will say a line and then go back down to the stage... Originally I was thinking I could use a couple of LED pars (a few of the ones off to the sides in front of the stage), but I know they probably won't be bright enough, and they'll be too wide. Should I bother doing it at all?

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply, really appreciate it!

 

[RickR]

Many of your quandaries involve the artistic aspects so I am very limited in how I can help. Too many possibilities! It will be up to you to really look at the stage and make those decisions.

I saw the SGM did 48 straight channels and 15 multi-function fixtures, but maybe yours doesn't.

I find covering the whole stage with a couple of lights (45 or other) tends to make things look more washed out and less interesting. Adding that to your half stage splits gets complex. I'd have to see a plot and section to have even a hope of knowing what would work. Side lighting is a big part of showing the actors are moving around. That's why it's the key method for dance. Also keep in mind that the audience has many different angles of view of the stage. Side lighting for some is more like front lighting for others. The side seats deserve to see faces fully lit.

The concert industry calls audience facing lights 'blinders' as that's about all they do. If the director wants that effect then you need to do something and wider is better. If he is trying to light the back wall then I'd look for another answer.

Good luck!

 

[XENGS]

Unfortunately it's the basic SGM Studio 24, not the scan control variant. Is it normal to split such a small rig into two consoles (Not just universes, but consoles)?? I don't really get why they did it...
I'd love to have a plot in my hands to show you but as far as I can tell I won't be getting one. I could make one myself but It'd be pretty pointless. Things would be out of scale, and it would most likely include non functioning fixtures...
I was probably not all that clear about the lights into the audience thing, the director was thinking more of spotting the actor. But I doubt that's possible without a "spot" fixture or a par can hung overhead on the FOH bar.
Anyway, I'm probably gonna try and get the rig the way it's set up in the first couple of photos (seems to be working pretty well for a full-stage look) and do any adjustments I may feel are necessary.
Thank you so so much for all the help! If it all goes well I'll post some pics
Cheers!

 

[ChrisB_SanDiego]

I would have to agree with Rick, Artistic selections are pretty tough to give input and if the director wants it, you would need to do your best to achieve it within reason. While i get this is not ideal, In a very basic sense if your house is out during the performance, and your not filming, almost any amount of light will draw attention to the actor, especially if it's the only light on in the audience.

In regards to a plot, just scribble something down, it doesn't need to be pretty, to scale or even look like a standard plot... as long as you know what your lights are doing, and where the lights you're using in the show are, that's the most important thing. the last thing you need is to have one lamp stuck on in black and you don't which one it is...

Having multiple consoles isn't that rare, although I wouldn't call it common in my area either. I've seen sets like what you have where you have one board op run the conventionals (usually the lead) and one run the color, it seems intentional for training sessions.
Given the boards you mention, i'd imagine it was a financial reason for 2 boards. They probably had the SGM first and then they added LED's and got a cheap board to use them or maybe it was bought as a set.

That being said. If you are using an SGM 24 (max of 48 dmx for the older non-scan version) and the elation/adj scenesetter 48 (also max 48 dmx) I don't see why you couldn't program everything with one universe on your laptop. unfortunately, you would need a 2 port node with 2 outs since the system was split in half. or a dmx splitter after your node, commonly referred to an optical isolator, have the director rent one if possible they aren't to expensive and almost any rental house carries one (you cannot use a mic 2fer/ Y-cable on dmx).

You asked if it would be reasonable to change dmx on the fixtures, that's up to the house. Some house rules tell me all I'm allowed to do is focus lights, no touching the patch if they don't specify then it's usually fine so long as the next time they want to use their system it works the same as it did before you came in. In that case, it depends if you have enough time and are actually allowed in the venue to re-pach prior to tech. Just be careful not to take on more than you can handle as far as what needs to be done with how much time you have to get it done, that includes recording so you can put it back, changing it, patching it to the console, programming, than reverse after the show. How late do you want your strike to go? LOL

Just because you can doesn't mean you should, especially if it's not a big benefit to the show. Your time is valuable. wait! this is theater nevermind XD
As far as audio goes. I completely agree with you. I almost never use the house board. I'll mix on mine and go out my mains to a working channel (there's usually one that works) on the house board.

Oh also with the oblivious house tech, in small venues usually the guy housesitting is a sound guy who doesn't know the light setup, a lighting guy who doesn't know the sound setup, or the custodian... .... .... welcome to theater

 

[XENGS]

Thanks for the replies everyone!
The show was yesterday and it all went very well!
I wasn't able to use my own lighting setup after all as I couldn't figure out the addressing. It turns out ALL side pars were on the same address (not even split L/R), with some weird mode selected (channel one was a "mode"? selector, you had rainbow & strobe FX, I spent 15 minuets trying to figure out how to get RGB out of them but I couldn't) and all of the rear ones were grouped together as well. With some overlapping channels... I ended up using the scene setter (which had pre-programmed RGB for all LEDs, and I could fade between Preset A&B to do some decent FX on the side lights). I also noticed lots of blue LEDs burnt out (some were flickering, some were completely dead).
Now as for focusing, I didn't get to do much as there is another show today that had already rehearsed and stuff the days before thus I (and the house guy) didn't want to ruin their setup. But on the upside, they must've brought in some extra lights - There were a few extra PCs or Fresnels (Not sure, I think the Fresnels were the house lights) spread along the Downstage electric along with some LED pars (which were the overlapping ones) which helped a lot since the FOH profiles were:
> Missing (broken) shutters here & there
> UNBELIEVABLY rusty on the inside (they dropped flakes of rust as you moved them)
> Very dim (With varying degrees of brightness among the fixtures... - I'm thinking mismatched, very old lamps)
And generally lacked maintenance. Plus only 6 out of 8 worked.
If I wasn't limited in regards to changing up the rig too much, I'd point the upstage fixtures straight down to get some more coverage back there.
Here are a couple of photos

(Here ^ the lack of lighting upstage is a bit obvious).

And audio was even better The console and a 58 I brought with me saved my ass. Literally. The only mics there were two VERY old dynamics (which sounded like they were high-passed at 300 and low passed at 7k) and a gooseneck type condenser - The PA sounded like typical $200 chinese plastc PA cabs, but with a generous boost in the low end, a drastic, wide-ish cut near 4-7k and a few notches here and there they were certainly usable As it turned out, they had scheduled for a two-piece band (two vocals, two acoustic instruments) to perform for 15 minutes or so before the show (which I didn't know about), so a few more mics would certainly help. But it worked out just fine.

Hearing and seeing the result the house guy (Not the same guy as last year, thank god) even recommended me for a musical performance that's being put up in a few weeks by another school that was looking for a sound guy, so I may be there again Even had a priest come up to me and compliment me on the sound and lighting!

Again, thanks again everyone for helping me out

 

[ChrisB_SanDiego]

Haha good ole 58 saving the day again! Very nice job. You did the best you could with what you had, from the pictures it looks like it came out pretty good overall.

I hear what you're saying with the patch. With things like slim pars, cheap dj lights, or off brand knockoffs you can't even start numbering until 10 or 12, everything else is used for a color macro or slave setting. And if they are on a relay it's even worse, I had to work with knockoff slim pars that everytime a light downstream was disconnected the upstream lights would all reset to channel one in slave mode... Don't worry, with experience you'll start knowing what to look for.

Oh I would also strongly recommend you keep a dropbox or google drive folder for all the manuals of lights and consoles you encounter, also any notes and photos of the problems and successes you had at the venue (while it's still fresh in your mind) so you don't have the same issues the next time your at the same venue. It keeps the headaches to a minimum. (I have a separate folder for lights, consoles, venues)

 

[XENGS]

Yeah. Certainly not perfect, but I don't think it could've been all that much better given the circumstances. I've certainly done much worse in the past, I'm very satisfied with how it all turned out
Great idea on the folder with the venues and the manuals, never really thought about it. I'll probably be implementing it soon, thanks!