How do you deal with low lying fog wet flooring?

LesWilson

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Mar 2, 2012
Location
South Florida, USA
Director wants to use dry ice for low lying fog in 3 or 4 scenes of musical. I'm concerned about the actors in the next scene on a wet floor. I'm thinking stage crew and 2 or 3 dry mops doing a once over. How do you all handle the wet floor? Is it really that big of a deal? Is it really doable other than between acts with mops and fans etc? TIA
 

Amiers

Renting to Corporate One Fixture at a Time.
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May 28, 2009
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Phoenix, Az
Depends on the foot ware and balance of the actors/ress on stage. You got a bunch of blue hairs out there or not so coordinated kids they are gonna wipe out.

Solved by like you said a quick mop passthrough ASAP or directly after the scene you do a super hot lit scene directly after then mop ASAP.
 

MarshallPope

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Nov 10, 2009
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Auburn, New York
In my experience, the most moisture usually occurs within 6 feet or so of the fog outlet. If that area can be avoided until it has had time to dry or is wiped up, that is probably the best option.
 

macsound

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San Francisco, CA
In my experience, the most moisture usually occurs within 6 feet or so of the fog outlet. If that area can be avoided until it has had time to dry or is wiped up, that is probably the best option.
I agree with this.
In long time uses of a peasouper, like the sewer scene of Guys and Dolls, I've always laid a black bath towel directly in front of the peasouper, laid lengthwise toward the stage. The amount of wetness the towel would get would differ depending on the ambient temperature and humidity of the building and how much the AC was running.
 

What Rigger?

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PPT.
Air temp and humidity are going to affect how much moisture you'll get on the deck. Another consideration is definitely: can the fog sources live in the wings? Do they have to be onstage? (What musical are we talking about, BTW?) Can they hide behind flats/scenery? This will all determine how much of a headache you have comin' your way.
 

LesWilson

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Mar 2, 2012
Location
South Florida, USA
This is very helpful. I was leaning away from a pea souper toward the juice based Antari ICE 101 but maybe not. The towel and hot lights might be very workable for us. I was thinking everywhere that fog went would be wet. Our wing areas are preciously small and having a pipe going on stage would be a serious headache for moving and storing set pieces. This year it's new Wind in the Willows from MTI.
 

macsound

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San Francisco, CA
What show is this being used for?
I've never used one of those fog cooling machines except one that was liquid nitrogen powered for Beauty, but how does this machine keep from leaking as the ice melts?
Wonder if you could still use dry ice.
 

LesWilson

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Mar 2, 2012
Location
South Florida, USA
The show is the new Wind in the Willows from MTI. The el cheapo Mister Kool versions notoriously leak according to my research. But the Antari apparently has a water proof reservoir and drain valve ... one reason it is 3X the price no doubt. And yes, Antari says you can also use Dry Ice. Frankly, I wonder about the fog juice residue on the floor. I sometimes get some mighty slick areas from my flown Chauvet Flex machines firing at 45 degree down from 16'. Not sure about the noise of the Antari vs a pea souper either.
 
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Ancient Engineer

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Sep 21, 2017
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Sandusky, Ohio
I have used the Antari unit with dry ice and also (very)chilled saltwater. It lays low well on a surface that isn't too warm.

It was about as loud as your average fogger...

HVAC can play havoc with it though. If your cast has capes or flowing dresses it disturbs and migrates pretty easily.

True dry ice generated low level fog has so many other hazards that I'd avoid it if possible.

I had a setup once where wine ended up being spilled on the stage at the end of a scene... We used a few Swiffers on the changeover as they were cheap, easy to paint black and very absorbant.
 

almorton

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Caterham, Surrey, UK
Only ever used a glaciator, but that was surprisingly quiet, and we didn't have much spatter at the pipe end, but then we weren't running it at full output throughout an entire scene for minutes at a time, just for 30 seconds or so at a time at a continuous low "filling rate". The glaciator is a fogger/chiller with no CO2 or N2 - just a big "refrigerator" for those who aren't familiar.
 

jtweigandt

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Aug 2, 2013
Location
Moline Il
Pea soupers used for years.. Only moisture like others have said is usually right near the outlet and manageable. Small amt of dry ice if you break it up makes lots of fog fast, and it goes away very fast as well when you need it to. I've used chilled glycol as well, and not been as happy with the after rise/drift. Biggest pain with dry ice was the nightly stop at the HyVee or the local ice cream MFG to pick up 5 lbs.. We had a newer fogger with built in chill loop purchased for secret garden with "special" fluid for low lying, but didn't get to use it when everything went poof last spring.
 

Catherder

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Portland OR
I used a home brewed chiller for a play in the Before Time and it wasn’t super great. The initial output looked fantastic, just a nice thick carpet of mist on the stage. No issues with moisture or anything. But as soon as the performers started doing their thing it rose and dissipated pretty fast. No moisture on stage and we didn’t set off the smoke alarms, so that was a win, but not really the eerie mist we were looking for.

Funny side story - one night our fogger operator missed the stop cue and kept the button mashed down until the auditorium looked like the floor of a Grateful Dead concert. Heard after the show that the audience thought it was intentional to give a more immersive experience😀
 

LesWilson

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Mar 2, 2012
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South Florida, USA
I really appreciate you all sharing the hands on experience. The project has been green-lighted. One of my production students and his Dad are going to build a variation of one of these that pump water onto the dry ice instead of dunking the ice into water ... easily controlled with RF remote relay ....
 

RonHebbard

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Waterdown, ON, CA
I really appreciate you all sharing the hands on experience. The project has been green-lighted. One of my production students and his Dad are going to build a variation of one of these that pump water onto the dry ice instead of dunking the ice into water ... easily controlled with RF remote relay ....
Interesting, informative & educational: Of course we've all got 6" & 4" hole saws (To fabricate the donut on the underside of the lid) on hand at the ready for use in our drill presses &/or vertical mills.
Like so many things, it all sounds easy when you say it fast (even in 30+ minutes).
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

almorton

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Caterham, Surrey, UK
Once while setting up for "Rebecca" a colleague and I were trying to gauge how much fog to fill the set with so that when the door was opened and the fire was announced, enough smoke followed to give the right impression that rest of the house was on fire. We seriously underestimated the output of a ZR33 and when he flung open the doors the smoke billowed out and completely filled the entire auditorium (we're only a small, 200 seat theatre) in seconds. Note to self not to run it that long in production.

For anyone who has seen the UK TV show "Stars in their eyes" it was like the "Tonight Matthew I'm going to be ..." moment where the performer is completely engulfed in fog.
 
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LesWilson

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Mar 2, 2012
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South Florida, USA
Of course we've all got 6" & 4" hole saws (To fabricate the donut on the underside of the lid) on hand at the ready for use in our drill presses &/or vertical mills.
Well I was wondering when this thread would get a Toodledoo in it! Thanks @RonHebbard. Did you see that guy's shop? Nice. In my case, my student's family owns a submersible pump company with a large factory floor, skilled metal craftsmen and house sized vertical mills and various machinery. So yeah, my hole saws top out at 4" and the throat on my 1946 drill press doesn't have much reach but I'm thinking that's not a problem for this Dad and son team. :)
 
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Lexington, SC
We used a couple of PeaSoupers a few years ago for Lion King Jr. the effect was wonderful. We placed black towels in front of the outlets as mentioned by macsound. We didn't have any issues with water or moisture on the stage. Our issue was the fact that we placed the supers too close to the legs. You can imagine the mess at the bottom of the legs where the fire retardant gat damp. Had to remove the legs and send them to be cleaned and re-treated after the show. An expensive PIA.

Next time I will use short sections of dryer vent to direct the fog beyond the legs a few inches. I may also fly the legs out a few inches just before we drop the dry ice.
 

joe2you

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Joined
May 19, 2004
How much fog are you looking for?

I've built a custom fogger for Shrek out of a plastic garbage and some aluminum dryer vent hose and an in-line vent fan. Start at the bottom and wind your vent hose up the inside of the trash can and fix it in place with eiher hot melt glue or in my case wire. Use additional vent hose to direct the fog where you want it.

Placed in a cement mixing pan to catch any leaking water from the holes and filled with a couple bags of ice prior to show it put's out a decent amount of ground fog that doesn't leave any water on the floor. The aluminum vent hose conducts heat (cold in this case) fairly well and transfers the cold from the ice to the fog causing it to hang on the floor. The vent fan goes on the outlet side of the trash can to help pull fog through the hose and encourages it out to wherever you want it. I just leave the vent fan on all the time (remember to use a GFCI outlet) and place a small box fan off stage on a DMX relay to help clear the stage of any residual fog when the scene is over. I suggest putting the whole thing on separate furniture dollies so you can move them around especially the tub with the ice can in it so you can empty it every night.

Simple, inexpensive, DMXable and stores well. Your biggest expense is a decent fogger but most production houses have them and you don't have to modify one if you need to rent one.

ground fogger.jpg
 
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Catherder

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Jun 2, 2019
Location
Portland OR
I used dryer vent for ours as well. Worked great. We had a cyc with a cutout silhouette village in front of it as the main set - the fogger was behind the cyc, slid the dryer hose under it and fed to a small hole cut into the bottom of the “village” at upstage center. Painted the inside of the tubing black and it blended in great.
 

RonHebbard

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Jun 12, 2004
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Waterdown, ON, CA
I used dryer vent for ours as well. Worked great. We had a cyc with a cutout silhouette village in front of it as the main set - the fogger was behind the cyc, slid the dryer hose under it and fed to a small hole cut into the bottom of the “village” at upstage center. Painted the inside of the tubing black and it blended in great.
@Catherder Is it safe to assume your "cyc" is a sky cloth, rather than a Brit's style plaster cyc, and it doesn't have a pipe / pipe pocket sewn into its bottom edge?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

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