How do you feel about buying used gear?

[Sean]

I'm in Seattle so I've got no problem buying my cable straight from an electrical supply house, there are several to choose from. Anybody know if you can get gsp connectors from an electrical supply place or is that a theater only purchase.

You CAN get pin connectors from McMaster-Carr, etc, but you'll pay a premium. Look at Production Advantage's online catalog http://www.proadv.com
for pricing. If you have a realtionship with a dealer (Barbizon, PRG, etc) you can get them there, just don't pay more than $5 per. If the order is large (which it sounds like this would be a decent size) you should have more leverage. You might even find a deal on ebay (I've purchased probably 300-400 connectors there).

What is the budget and list of gear thus far?

--Sean

 

[ship]

For the most part, I agree.
But, larger shops don't really "maintain" lekos, etc. PRG, for example, buys lekos and sells them off before they really start to need to be "maintained". Each time the units are rented, the lenses get cleaned, the lights get a fresh coat of black paint, and they get benched. Then out the door again. After several trips in and out of the shop they're sold off. Based on what my rental contacts there have said, PRG often sells off lekos after about a year of use.
When you're buying used, you don't know if you're getting a unit that's gone out on ~10 corporate gigs and has only 200 hours of use on it, or a unit that's come back from a 3 year run in a broadway house (or worse, a couple years on the road with a rock show).
--Sean

..

Yes, to an extent though what I bought out of Bash (before absorbed by the Borg was immaculate) my girlfriend might have something to say about used and abused gear out the door without proper care. All her gear no matter the age maintains it's factor spec or better condition - though a fight at times over par cans with me the purist if I know about the sale. Very much depends upon the gear, if a can... she as opposed to I might allow certain things to slip by way of way it was wired, on a Leko on the other hand, just as in the moving light department, I would have to doubt that they are pulling gear from the active inventory that's in less than totally servicable condition not just for resale but up to our specifications of it.

Than again I have had to restructure certain gear from the Borg that was a wee bit abused and bought used also. To some extent I would expect it depends upon the level of the gear bought and the person prepping the gear for sale. Also gotten some conventionals that had to have cob webs cleaned out of the lens trains, this much less gear for rental that had obviously never been prepped given major service issues to it.

As a general concept, yes date of purchase is tracked as best possible by way of lot number the older stuff is sold off first. = This tracking more by way of lot number problems in essence than what's sold off first but it is an effort to sell off older gear before say something a month old. On the other hand, if you had a bunch of gear, wouldn't you also sell off what's older?

Worse not always what's coming off a Broadway show or what's touring stock, this as opposed to what comes out of Ma & Pop's Garage band supply, or in general from any retailer that doesn't maintain their gear properly. That's the issue more so than how many hours of use it has had. What's worse, some guy that re-wired the even recent cyc you just bought with THHN wire and it currently works, or some really old fixture re-wired in a proper way and maintained properly? Who knows who is doing what until you inspect = even as above I was culprate with at one point the building wire within a lighting fixture that was later sold off.

 

[gafftaper]

gaff how close are you to a 4wall or a PRG. Sometimes you can get used equipment deals with rental companys that's pretty decent.

I'm in Seattle so the nearest is Vegas for both companies... that's a bit of a drive. There is a really good dealer in the area here but they keep their stuff for a LONG time. They've got a couple of repair wizards who keep stuff going and looking pretty good for many years. When they finally do get rid of something it's because they can no longer get parts for it I think.

What is the budget and list of gear thus far?

Well the budget for lighting instruments, cable, and accessories is going to be in the range of $140,000-$150,000. It's a black box so I'm currently working on a variety of general wash light plots for a variety of seating configurations. Once that's done I'll be able to nail down the final specific inventory. But it's going to be around 50 Source 4's, 24 S4 pars, 40-50 Fresnels, Cyc lights, a few PAR cans, some Seachangers and/or Nexeras, a couple of movers (Mac 700 or VL1000's... that's a debate for another thread), a set of about 10 Selecon zooms for gobos and those fabulous print your own transparencies, plus I-cues, right arms, rotators, Rosco Infinity animation wheels, Rosco x-effects... lot's of cool stuff.

Once I've got my inventory done I'll post it for feedback. The beauty is I'm getting 2 racks of strand C21 Dimmers, a new strand "Classic Palette", and all the wiring in the building's base package (Same goes for a full audio system). I've got about $300,000 to spend but its for only small stuff: lighting instruments, tools for the scene shop, costume shop, mics, cable, shelving and cabinetry... all the the big money items that have to be installed are already purchased. So we are going to have a killer system when it's all done with a lot of toys.

So back to the question... I really don't HAVE to cut corners and buy used gear. I've got the money to buy new... but still it's tempting. I'll probably go all new just because then I know how it's been cared for.

The other tempting thing I came across is that Martin Factory refurbished website. Of course the MAC 700 has an amazing record of never breaking down so they rarely get them in. But the gear all comes with a warranty from Martin and it's been checked over by their repair people so you know it's working when you get it. I may have to keep my eye on that site... If I could snag something that had just been a demo and was priced cheap, I think it would be worth the risk. It's certainly less risk than buying from one of the used specialty places because Martin is standing behind it.

 

[Sean]

Well the budget for lighting instruments, cable, and accessories is going to be in the range of $140,000-$150,000. It's a black box so I'm currently working on a variety of general wash light plots for a variety of seating configurations. Once that's done I'll be able to nail down the final specific inventory. But it's going to be around 50 Source 4's, 24 S4 pars, 40-50 Fresnels, Cyc lights, a few PAR cans, some Seachangers and/or Nexeras, a couple of movers (Mac 700 or VL1000's... that's a debate for another thread), a set of about 10 Selecon zooms for gobos and those fabulous print your own transparencies, plus I-cues, right arms, rotators, Rosco Infinity animation wheels, Rosco x-effects... lot's of cool stuff.

No too shabby!

I know you said you'd post the list for feedback later, but I have a few questions/suggestions/comments. What is this inventory supporting? Is this just for the school's theatre department? Do you have a lot of outside groups rent/use this space?

Fresnels: If you haven't seen them, really take a look at Selecon's stuff. They are really well made, and they have several sizes (the 4" gear is especially nice for a smaller space--I'm buying 24 of their 4" PC's to support a smaller space in our new building).
We've had the discussion about cool toys vs. base inventory, so I'm not trying to go down that road. But.... Save your money on the Rosco XFX units. Yes, they have some cool options, but they are so specialized as to become "not really worth it" for their price. We used a couple on a production about a year ago and weren't really impressed with them. You'll get more use out of more rotators, or even a GAM SX4 and/or Film/FX.

Keep us posted--this sounds like an exciting project for you!

--Sean

 

[soundlight]

With that kinda budget, don't get anything used, except maybe the martin b-stock units. I eagerly anticipate the gear list review thread...

 

[Van]

.......................................
Yeah several students and I can knock those out quick.

..........

Gaff, you bring the refreshments, and we'll all drive to Seattle and have a cable party! Yeah a whole weekend of cutting, stripping, crimping and screwing.
I don't think that came out right.

You, know I can't remember positively, but I'm realativly certain that I purchased GSPs through Oeff Electric, once, down here in Portland.

 

[avkid]

Gaff, you bring the refreshments, and we'll all drive to Seattle and have a cable party! Yeah a whole weekend of cutting, stripping, crimping and screwing.
I don't think that came out right.

Eww....
D.O.M. alert!

 

[Van]

..............
D.O.M. ..........

Is D.O.M. like T.M.I. ?

 

[avkid]

Is D.O.M. like T.M.I. ?

No, Dirty Old Man.

 

[gafftaper]

Well I just called the local electric supply place and TODAY'S price for 1000' for 12/3 SOOW is $1.35 a foot. I'm not sure if that means I need to make a few more calls of if the market is just THAT bad right now. Ouch. That's a little more than the 80-90 cents I was expecting to pay.

 

[TimmyP1955]

Camel Traders has 12-3 SO for $160 for 250'. With shipping that will still be under $1.00/ft. http://www.cameltraders.com/search.php?type=39&manufacturer=&keyword=

 

[Sean]

Well I just called the local electric supply place and TODAY'S price for 1000' for 12/3 SOOW is $1.35 a foot. I'm not sure if that means I need to make a few more calls of if the market is just THAT bad right now. Ouch. That's a little more than the 80-90 cents I was expecting to pay.

Production Advantage has 1000' spools of 12/3 SOOW for $702.71 http://www.productionadvantageonline.com/Electrical-Supplies/?page=1
With freight, that should be under $800.

See if you can talk to a manager at the electrical place (after you get a firm quote from PA). Say you'd like to keep the business local, but you can get it from another company for $xx. Maybe they'll match it, and deliver it for free (Also, ask the electrical contractor on site for the building which supplier they're using--you MIGHT be able to piggy-back a delivery).

It never hurts to ask, or to play the "arts organization/educational setting" card.

--Sean

 

[gafftaper]

Thanks... Looks like I need to make some more calls.

 

[gafftaper]

I was just over at my wife's work... they are having some remodeling done. I happened to see an electrical contractor standing in the hall and asked him the cheapest place in town to buy 12/3 SOOW. I told him I was hoping to find something in the 80-90 cents a foot range and was shocked to be quoted $1.35 yesterday. He said, just a second, he called his buddy at the same electrical supply company. He laughed a little and hung up. He said, "I'll tell you what, you find your best price and give me a call and I'll sell it to you for less".

So I've got my source for a good deal!

As long as we are on the topic: Do I want SO or SOOW? I'm not exactly sure why I need the "OW" part.

 

[ship]

And I'm at somewhere around $0.61 per foot I believe if I updated my notes to last weeks spool, otherwise possibly around $1.35 per foot thanks to Bush War in still having a good price as opposed to what 4/0 type SC is going for these days. The prices mentioned are not so bad oveall given the lesser scale. Two weeks ago I bought over 6,000' worth of 12/3 adding to my like 20K in feet per year bought. That drives the price down a wee bit but also not enough. Go with the best you can get but don't go too extensive in time spent or getting it cheap but paying for it in getting it to you.

In any case, it's a question of calling around and how much you buy that gets you a price you want. How much you call about and factor in say an extra few hundred for shipping as opposed to your own costs for pickup, how much in bulk you buy this time much less per year always plays a factor. A school distract at times still has the advantage over that of a buyer for a department.

SO verses SOOW... This goes into what each letter stands for and you definately want the SOOW, this much less the non Euro qualifying type which is not as good. S means rubberized, O means oil resistant, the second O means innner conductors also oil resistant (fog and haze fluid seeps in everywhere) and W means water resistant. Might cost less but just as it's necessary to buy non SJ cable, it's also really a good idea to buy the better SOOW.

 

[Van]

Well I just called the local electric supply place and TODAY'S price for 1000' for 12/3 SOOW is $1.35 a foot. I'm not sure if that means I need to make a few more calls of if the market is just THAT bad right now. Ouch. That's a little more than the 80-90 cents I was expecting to pay.

Copper baby!. It's through the roof. If somebody could figure out a way to make steel as good a conductor, and as maleable, flexible, as copper, they'd be giving away cable.

 

[soundlight]

Copper is so expensive now that some folks that I know are gathering up jobsites' spare copper wire, copper water pipe, and other copper stuff to take it to the scrap yard and sell it.

 

[Capn]

I have purchased a lot of stuff from Gear Source. I would ONLY deal with Steve Jingo there because he will not blow smoke up your...well you know. He has always given excellent advice and never suggested stuff I don't need or tried to up-sell me. He also makes sure the quality of used stuff that he sells is as stated in the ad and if there any issues, he makes it right.

 

[Van]

Copper is so expensive now that some folks that I know are gathering up jobsites' spare copper wire, copper water pipe, and other copper stuff to take it to the scrap yard and sell it.

You Don't have Meth-Heads in Lewisberg do you?

Most of the tweakers have been doing just that around here, for years to support their drug habits. What's worse? Now, they've begun dimantling roadside barricades, and even Highschool Bleacher seats for the steel and aluminum to recycle.

 

[gafftaper]

You Don't have Meth-Heads in Lewisberg do you?
Most of the tweakers have been doing just that around here, for years to support their drug habits. What's worse? Now, they've begun dimantling roadside barricades, and even Highschool Bleacher seats for the steel and aluminum to recycle.

Welcome to Oregon... keep moving or the Tweakers will get you car.

Dude I had my stereo stolen from my motel parking lot in Lincoln City Oregon one time. LINCOLN FREAKIN CITY!!! This is a town where they park a cop car in the speed trap and leave it there for days if not months to trick the tourists into slowing down so they don't have to go to the effort of handing out tickets.