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How to convince the top dog we need new wireless?

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by Anonymous067, Apr 19, 2009.

  1. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    Our facility owns 6 VHF wireless sytems. They work OK...but for a summer event, I want to rent 10 Shure UHFR systems (costing around 1200 dollars).

    They will probably try and tell me the VHF work and have worked fine in the past, and won't wanna fork out 1200 bucks. How can I get the money for the rental?
     
  2. cdub260

    cdub260 CBMod CB Mods

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    When it comes to asking the powers that be for money, I find that writing out a detailed and well thought out proposal really helps. Go point by point, detailing the limitations or issues of your current system and how renting the new wireless systems will address those issues. Be as clear and succinct as possible. Make the proposal as detailed as you can while at the same time keeping it simple enough that your technophobic grandmother can understand it. And most importantly, limit your proposal to a single page. I guarantee that the folks who control the purse strings don't want to read through a ten page packet on why you need new toys.

    Will this get you what you want?

    Maybe. Maybe not. I can tell you though that I have had a very good success rate getting our board of directors to approve expenditures when I write proposals for them.
     
  3. CHACHI

    CHACHI Member

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    a senior this year wanted to have a sound booth built and he wrote a letter to the superintendent and the principal as well as the crew managers to get this booth... it worked so try writing a letter as well as meet with the decision making people and give good reasons why they should get those mics...
     
  4. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    I guess I need more of a "from a sound standpoint"...WHY these UHFR are so much better?
     
  5. cprted

    cprted Active Member

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    You need to make sure you are making the distinction between a need and a want. If you can do the show with your existing gear, you don't actually need the rental.

    We all want more/better gear, but money doesn't grow on trees and it is up to the PM to ensure that the show gets the most bang out of the always limited bucks. What you need to figure out is not just how the rental will improve things in audioland, but how it will improve the overall production values of the show. Then your PM will have to decide if the tech budget has an extra $1200 dollars, and will renting mics be the best use of that money.
     
  6. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    I agree, if the existing ones work, then why do you need to rent the UHF-R? Is that the best use of that $1,200 of the production's budget? I'm not saying it isn't justified, but you haven't really presented any justification for it or problems you are trying to address and without that it is probably going to be difficult to convince anyone. So maybe first build your case to us and then we can work from there.
     
  7. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

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    Well, I was able to convince the powers that be that we needed new wireless because ours are about to become illegal. Thank you FCC.
     
  8. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    Thats my problem. I don't HAVE a case yet!

    That's why I need your help.
    About the only arguments I can think up are...

    VHF is lower grade and quality.
    VHF band is very crowded.
    simple stuff like that...no actual arguments at all.
     
  9. howlingwolf487

    howlingwolf487 Active Member

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    What problems have you had with your VHF wireless system?

    Frequent dropouts? Lack of frequency agility? Noise in the RF transmissions?

    List the problems here and we can help you (and potentially the "top dog") see what about a newer system would be advantageous.

    Wireless technology has come a long way from VHF and continue to improve.
     
  10. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    I would actually disagree somewhat with those points, in fact one could argue that due to all the digital TV transition, White Space Device and 700MHz band issues, VHF mics are the least negatively affected and most likely to have more open spectrum in the future. These also seem to be very generic points, can you out together some examples of how they specifically relate to your systems or would negatively affect the production?

    At least in my experience, to be successful your case will likely have to address one of two factors; resolving specific existing problems or providing definitive increased performance or functionality. If there are no specific problems with the existing units then that is probably not a good approach, in which case it comes down to improved performance or functionality. What specific performance or functionality do you see being improved? How would it be improved and how would that benefit the production?
     
  11. 3dB

    3dB Member

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    I think the last few posts are heading in the right direction. If the existing wireless systems are operating reliably, I might suggest that you pursue renting 4 of the UHF systems to round out the system to the needed 10 for the summer event.

    UHF systems do not inherently have better sound quality than their VHF bretheren. Some argument could be made that manufacturers place their best componentry in their higher priced systems (and this has some truth of course) but the UHF systems are also more expensive by necessity due to requiring the use of more expensive ultra-high-frequency parts, a greater total number of parts required and the need for more expensive construction techniques. Other manufacturing costs are also higher, especially the amount of time required to adjust the equipment and verify its performance. However, as long as your existing systems are transmitting/receiving reliably with no interferance problems, it is the actual mic being used (and the proper utilization of that mic) that influences sound quality the most.

    If you are already using top quality mics with your existing system, using the same make/model mics with the 4 rented UHF systems you are interested in (if you choose to do so) will go a long way toward providing the evidence you seek - for or against - replacing all of your existing systems.

    Regards,
    Mark
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  12. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    For the record, our current VHF wireless sucks...
    Yes I know...VHF doesn't mean better than UHF...but the uneducated people on top don't know this.

    The audio quality of the gear we have now does not remotely compare to UHFR. This is a true fact, not a hidden lie from the head honchos.

    I know well the advantages and disadvantages myself, I'd rather hear the fake ones I can feed to the uneducated top-people.
     
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Providing false information to those who control the money seems risky at best. If you cannot make a legitimate argument without distorting facts, you must not really need them.
     
  14. cprted

    cprted Active Member

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    No kidding.
     
  15. 3dB

    3dB Member

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    Numerous replies have offered any number of honorable ways to achieve what you want/need. I am sure many of those who have frequent this site are business people who have no interest in helping someone "stick it to the man" - because they are "the man". You have not answered a single question from the replies you received in response to your original post - excellent questions - questions that, if answered would help you move in a direction that would be helpful.

    We cannot figure out where you stand - or even what your needs are. "The mics are OK". "The mics suck" "WHY are these UHFR so much better?" "I know well the advantages and disadvantages myself". The motive may be worthwhile - but I can't go along with your method.
     
  16. lieperjp

    lieperjp Well-Known Member

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    What you should be looking for are the real reasons the VHF mics are not better - and how to explain them to the top people in a simple, understandable method. Just because the top-people know "nothing" about mics doesn't mean they're stupid. If you educate them and PROVE that the UHFR are truly better than the VHF for your program, who knows? Maybe they'll look into purchasing them instead of just renting them.
     
  17. TimMiller

    TimMiller Well-Known Member

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    Honestly it sounds like you want to just play with the UHF-R's. Shure makes some other very nice wireless that doesnt carry the rental price of the UHF-R's. A dual reciever and two mics runs around 5 grand for the UHF-Rs so the rental price will reflect. I'd look at going with the ULX, they would be more than adaquate and the price will be less. Most schools and organizations are on a tight budget especially with the economy so I know they will not want to shell out the money, especially if their wireless has worked just fine in the past. I have gone out to schools that say they have someone complaining they need new stuff just because they dont have the newest gear. Guess what if it works and does the job, you dont need to go out and spend money buying the newest stuff.
     
  18. Anonymous067

    Anonymous067 BANNED USER

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    Thank You.
     
  19. Eboy87

    Eboy87 Well-Known Member

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    I would submit that in this case, I'd rather have the SLX than the ULX. Having used both, I find the SLX more robust, plus the body packs are smaller than their ULX counterparts. Plus they take AA batteries, not bulky 9V. They should rent slightly cheaper too.

    My $.02
     

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