How to Improve on this Layout?

[Stevens R. Miller]

Looks like I'm going to be doing more tech work in local middle school theaters. For the show we just did, we had an Innovator 24/48 lighting console, a Soundcraft GB2 32-channel mixer, and a rack of 15 Audio Technica wireless receivers, all crammed into a side row of seats. It worked, partly because the mixer was on a table our carpenter made that sits on top of the backs of the seats. The lighting board was on a tiny table that fit behind the seats, and left enough room to operate it while seated. The pictures below should give some idea of what a typical middle school theater looks like in my area. (I've blurred or greyed out pictures of the children present. The middle-aged guy with the belly is me.)

I'd welcome general advice on superior layouts. As the pictures (kinda) show, there is a spot all the way in the back where a board (or boards, one on each side) might go. As the school is overcrowded, however, those spots are presently occupied by teachers' desks. That's not to say we couldn't co-locate, or find some way to share the space. But, our snake wouldn't reach that far. We have two, though, so maybe we could connect them? As for the lighting board, the sole DMX 512 input I can find is (bafflingly) on the wall directly behind the seats at mid-house. Could a wireless Tx/Rx pair give me options to put the board elsewhere? Any idea why an electrician would have mounted the input port there? As you can also see from the pix, the wiring is buried in cinder blocks. Some of the high-current stuff in the wings is in surface-mounted conduit, but, as far as I can tell, all of the control-signal and audio-signal wiring is, like Fortunato, entombed forever behind bricks and mortar.

I'm guessing that the original plan was to locate the control hardware in those backmost locations, but it's possible that the original plan didn't even contemplate control hardware. The GB2 is a recent acquisition. I don't know the history of the Innovator, but it's possible that it, too (and the associated DMX 512 hardware) were added after the school was built. In any case, I'd be glad to have suggestions on better layouts in spaces like this one.

 

[Amiers]

I think where you are at is prolly the best spot. It's in a nice corner and you have a door right behind you. I would take out the chairs and build yourself a booth big enough to be comfortable and functional. I would say the original design called for it to be in that corner to go both directions of the space.

Was the divider added on or came with the space? I wouldn't be surprised if on the wall opposite side of the room there wasn't another Dmx In , in case the divider was closed for 2 functions.

Curious to see it closed or know if it runs the length of the room and over the "stage"

If you go the wireless route where else in the space would you move? With that divider there you can't take center which would be super ideal.

You could make a mobile booth but that is tear down and set up each time. Really it depends on how often the space is going to be used.


TLDR:
Budget?
Time?
Temp or Permenant?

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

I would take out the chairs and build yourself a booth big enough to be comfortable and functional.

You know, it never occurred to me, but it's possible that those rows of chairs are removable. If they are just bolted down, we could maybe take them out for the duration of a production, then return them to the auditorium when we strike. I'll have a look.

Was the divider added on or came with the space? I wouldn't be surprised if on the wall opposite side of the room there wasn't another Dmx In , in case the divider was closed for 2 functions.

The divider is original equipment, but doesn't divide the entire room. There are actually two dividers. One splits the front of the house and the back of the house into two spaces, the front space having the stage in it, and the back space having only seats. The second divider is the one you can see in the pictures. When the first divider is closed, the second can be closed to divide the back of the house into two spaces of their own. The school does this daily, actually, as those two spaces are used as classrooms. The front of the house is never used as a classroom.

Curious to see it closed or know if it runs the length of the room and over the "stage"

It's like this when both are closed:

+-------------------------------------------+
|                                           |
|                   STAGE                   |
|       =========#1 Electric=========       |
+-----                                 -----+
[                                           ]
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
[       =========#2 Electric=========       ]
|VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV|
[                     <                     ]
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
|                     >                     |
|                     <                     |
+----------___-----------------___----------+

If you go the wireless route where else in the space would you move? With that divider there you can't take center which would be super ideal.

Center is what I was thinking, just below the #2 El.

You could make a mobile booth but that is tear down and set up each time. Really it depends on how often the space is going to be used.

That's not a bad idea. We have to set it up and tear it down each time we do a show as it is. Historically, that's been once per year. This year, for the first time, we did a fall show and a spring show. Rather amazingly, these shows make a small profit for the school, so I don't think it will be all that hard to keep support for two-per-year.

Budget?

They bought the GB2 with profits from last year's show, so I am thinking we have $1,500-$2,000. This is a school, too, so passing the hat to a lot of parents who just saw their kids do a great show would probably bring in some extra capital.

Time?

Mixed. The next show won't be for six months, but there is talk of doing a "musical drama camp" over the summer, and we are limited to short stints of time in the space itself. I have a complete woodshop in my basement, so I could fabricate some things there, on my own time.

Temp or Permenant?

Nothing is permanent in a public school. Most likely, we need to think in terms of your "mobile booth" idea. Also, storage space is limited. We pack the GB2 into a custom-made case (that was another $1,000, btw), and often just leave the Innovator at the end of that same row where you see it in the pictures (which may explain why it is beginning to disintegrate).

Thanks for the reply. So much to learn. Really a case of drinking from a fire hose.

 

[Amiers]

Yeah 3-4 shows a year I would go mobile. I would get rid of that monster of a table and get some nice fold-able tables black with skirts and make yourself a nice corner. Like I said give yourself a comfortable space. I would say 12' wide x 6' deep. That is 6' for each console and 6' deep for people and audio racks. The only issue I see happening is the people directly behind your wouldn't be able to see much on SL. So think of that.


+-------------------------------------------+
| |
| STAGE |
| =========#1 Electric========= |
+----- -----+
[ ]
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O O O O O O |O O O O O| <--- Take out Chairs |
[ =========#2 Electric===== | Booth ]
|VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV|VVVVVVVVV|
[ < |_________]
| O O O O O O O O O > O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O < O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O > O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O < O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O > O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O < O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O > O O O O O O O O O |
| O O O O O O O O O < O O O O O O O O O |
| > |
| < |
+----------___-----------------___----------+


It looks like the chairs come out from your picture its just some bolts on the floor but its the whole row or no as they look connected.

I would get a case for that lighting console though unless you are trying to get a new board and want to take that route. Kids see knobs and sliders and they will want to play with it no matter what age.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The booth on wheels looks promising, helped a lot if you can get permanent connection points. Also needs a "garage" you can roll to. I like the center section where the portable chairs are and make it so operators can sit in chairs, rather than stools or standing.

You can remove and reinstall theatre chairs but it's not without difficulties. The seat tends to never rise smoothly after a few cycles and the anchors are not made to be done an undone. If this was a regular thing, either remove and use folding or stack chairs OR reinstall the theatre chairs on piece of plywood or a flat steel frame.

Or build a platform above the last row - all the way in back - and leave it. Better for lighting, not so good for sound.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

The booth on wheels looks promising, helped a lot if you can get permanent connection points.

Good point. I'm keeping notes.

Also needs a "garage" you can roll to.

Yeah, and that's a problem. There is almost no storage space available. The "wings" are about ten feet deep, and already have stuff cluttering them up. It would have to be something we could disassemble and store the pieces stacked up or on edge. Complicated.

I like the center section where the portable chairs are and make it so operators can sit in chairs, rather than stools or standing.

If that's not a problem for the audience behind them, I like that too. As the second divider actually takes up the space where the two centermost seats would be in all the rows behind center, it might actually work.

You can remove and reinstall theatre chairs but it's not without difficulties. The seat tends to never rise smoothly after a few cycles and the anchors are not made to be done an undone.

Goodness, you're not kidding! I did some Googling and learned that it is likely our seats were attached to the concrete floor with expansion bolts. That's certainly intended to be permanent (or, at most, removed only to replace the seats altogether.)

If this was a regular thing, either remove and use folding or stack chairs OR reinstall the theatre chairs on piece of plywood or a flat steel frame.

That's a clever idea. My wife pointed out that, on those occasions when they need extra seating, the school digs up (from its non-existent storage space ) a bunch of folding chairs that it puts in the athwartships center aisle. If we ripped out the two rows my "booth" uses now, there's no reason why eight of those folding chairs couldn't just sit there whenever the boards were packed away.

Good tips. Thanks!

 

[derekleffew]

+-------------------------------------------+
|                                           |
|                   STAGE                   |
|       =========#1 Electric=========       |
+-----                                 -----+
[                                           ]
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O O O O O O   O O O O O |
[       =========#2 Electric=========       ]
|VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV|
[                     <                     ]
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O > O O O O   O O O O O |
| O O O O O   O O O O < O O O O   O O O O O |
|                     >                     |
|                     <                     |
+----------___-----------------___----------+

Nomenclature issue, but an important one, I feel. What you refer to as "#2 Electric" should be called "FOH". Lighting positions are named/numbered starting at the plaster line. In a proscenium theatre, the second electric would be upstage of the number one electric. "AP#1,2,3,etc." (Ante Pro) is sometimes used to denote positions immediately downstage of the prosc. but still over the apron or orch. pit.

There's no problem plugging one snake into another, except for an additional point of failure, and cause for confusion should the numbers, or quantity of sends/returns, not match.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

What you refer to as "#2 Electric" should be called "FOH".

Ah, thanks! Nomenclature matters. When you have more than one FOH electric, how do you denote them? That is, would "FOH #1" be closest to the stage, with "FOH #2" being next furthest away?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Yes. Proscenium line and centerline at stage floor is 0,0,0 most commonly and I'm not alone in referencing everything from that point.

Over stage almost always "electrics" but FOH they may be catwalks, beams, coves, or other or a combination. Balcony rail or rails are usually not in the over auditorium scheme - so maybe catwalk 1 and 2 and then balcony rail.

Oddly, I don't think circuit numbering follows this pattern often. I always start with balcony rail and then to position furthest from stage, moving to stage, then through electrics. But a lot more variations then in numbering positions.

 

[RonHebbard]

Yes. Proscenium line and centerline at stage floor is 0,0,0 most commonly and I'm not alone in referencing everything from that point.

Over stage almost always "electrics" but FOH they may be catwalks, beams, coves, or other or a combination. Balcony rail or rails are usually not in the over auditorium scheme - so maybe catwalk 1 and 2 and then balcony rail.

Oddly, I don't think circuit numbering follows this pattern often. I always start with balcony rail and then to position furthest from stage, moving to stage, then through electrics. But a lot more variations then in numbering positions.

Back in the sixties or seventies, someone wrote a book totally devoted to position numbering schemes for all types of assembly and performance spaces. He covered prosc houses and all manner of black box spaces. It was pretty boring reading, and a real slog to get through, but he pretty much covered all of the plausible options.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

Back in the sixties or seventies, someone wrote a book totally devoted to position numbering schemes for all types of assembly and performance spaces. He covered prosc houses and all manner of black box spaces. It was pretty boring reading, and a real slog to get through, but he pretty much covered all of the plausible options.

It's often a fool's errand to attempt to impose a taxonomy onto a thing that is not necessarily subject to an ordering or partitioning, I believe. One can even run the risk of limiting one's options to those that one's taxonomy embraces, which, in the arts, would be foolish (in the sciences too, come to think of it). While it's easy to imagine some sort of canonical "theater" as being a stage with a curtain and rows of seats on one side of it, that obviously isn't the only space in which performances happen. Theater-in-the-round is an obvious example. Another might be dinner theater, where the "stage" and the "house" are the same place.

That said, I'm never one to avoid learning the jargon of an established field and, while there may be a variety of ways to identify pipes, bars, and battens, there are probably ways one could do it that are, by general acceptance, wrong. Those, I want to avoid.

Speaking of books, btw, I just received a copy of Theatrical Design and Production: An Introduction to Scene Design and Construction, Lighting, Sound, Costume, and Makeup 6th Edition, by J. Michael Gilette, in the mail. It's from 2007, so doesn't have the most recent technical info, but I actually wanted something basic and broad-based, so I can have at least a tiny bit of understanding of general theater concepts. It looks pretty good (as a physics major, I have a bit of a quibble with what he says about atoms in the chapter on electricity, but I can live with it). The info on techincal issues is a good start, but I'd welcome recommendations on more advanced texts.

Any suggestions for a more detailed book on lights and/or sound?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Imposing a taxonomy (OK - I had to google that definition - I admit) has some advantages in theatre, especially for spaces that host a variety of users. Since much of theatre was touring (and a lot still is) it just made sense that there is a common reference point. If every theatre was unique in its "geography", I think it would be worse than language barriers.

I think Lounsbury's "Theatre Backstage A to Z" is indispensable. For lighting, Pilbrow's "Stage Lighting Design" is inspirational, and certainly had a huge impact on my life. If you'll build much scenery, Sammler's and Holden's "Structural Design for the Stage" is a must. I wouldn't pass up any of the FREE standards from ESTA either, with a quick glance so you know whats there if you ever need it.

Gilette's book is good but for someone that finds imposing taxonomy a fools errand, I'm bemused, since the book imposes a kind of dogmatic traditional approach. I, for instance, find the idea of stock platforms and flats both artificially limiting, inefficient, and requiring huge amounts of storage space - worth more than the scenery stored in it. (but I'm sure I'm in a minority here).

 

[Stevens R. Miller]

Gilette's book is good but for someone that finds imposing taxonomy a fools errand, I'm bemused, since the book imposes a kind of dogmatic traditional approach.

I was looking for a textbook that had more breadth than depth, as a kind of intro, since I'm a theater noob. Learning the nomenclature of a specialty that has one (a nomenclature, that is) is, I feel, an important early step. It shows respect to those whose ranks you are seeking to join, makes it possible to read and converse about the topic, and tends to impress the heck out of your friends. Whenever it can be done, imposing a taxonomy has a lot of advantages. When it can't be done, either because the subject matter is wholly incapable of classification, or because it can only be classified to a degree, my feeling is that the limits of taxonomy must be admitted to. The alternative is sometimes to insist that, no, everything is subject to classification, we just need to improve the system we're using to do it. In computer science (the field in which I earn some of my living), we actually gained from a failed attempt at classification. The "Backus-Naur Form" for specifying the syntax of a programming language (one that has a context-free grammar, which most do) is a descendant of an unsuccessful attempt by Noam Chomsky to create a system for specifing the syntax of spoken languages. Apparently, he found out that there are so many special cases that no such system was, for practical purposes, possible.

I'm no dancer, nor a choreographer, but my friends who are tell me that Labanotation has similar limitations. It works well, up to a point, but it simply can't encompass everything a dancer does.

Thanks for the other recommended texts. This subject is a little overwhelming. Guidance on how to learn is much appreciated.

 

[RickR]

Take a group of variously creative, anti-authoritarian types and have them work together to invent real-ish versions of imaginary locations. Taxonomy is unlikely to dent their range. It does facilitate communication and we never have enough of that.

Practically speaking we have several overlapping systems of terms and lots of folks just calling stuff whatever they feel like at the time.