How to stop the annoying trill when Talk is released on Clear-Com?

Stevens R. Miller

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Apr 11, 2016
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
We are using Clear-Com RS-701 intercom packs and a TW-47 radio/intercom interface. When one of us releases the Talk button on the RS-701, everyone briefly hears a loud "trilling" sound, like three different tones sent in rapid succession (maybe 0.1 seconds each?). Flipping DIP switch #5 to "off" in the RS-701 makes this stop (it is labeled "Call-on Talk Enable" in the RS-701 instructions). However, this appears also to turn off the 20 kHz call signal the RS-701 sends, which has the unwanted effect of preventing the TW-47 from keying its transmitter.

How can I arrange things so the RS-701 continues to have the TW-47 key its transmitter, without causing that annoying trill to happen each time someone releases their Talk button?

Thanks!
 

MRW Lights

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Jan 4, 2017
Location
NYC
What type of radio's are you using? I believe the sound you're hearing is often called a "roger beep" intended to tell you when a transmission has ended. I think your issue on the radio side not the clear com side.
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
The trill happens with no radios are connected or turned on. I think it's a "talk-off" command being sent by the master station when the call signal drops from the currently sending pack, probably to make sure no one else is holding the line open (and, when a transmitter is connected, thereby keying the transmitter constantly). Our intercom has two circuits, and I noticed that the trill only sounds on Circuit A, not Circuit B. Thus, I am guessing at this point that the "talk-off" command is set to sound at the master for Circuit A only. If I can get to the master and figure out how to change it, I think that might solve my problem, since I can set all the RS-701s to go back to sending the call signal, thus keying the transmitter at the TW-47, without the master sending that annoying sound.

I hope.
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
Just got off the phone with Clear-Com (very speedy and helpful customer support, btw). They tell them their systems do not use any kind of "talk-off" command, and that the trill I am describing is almost certainly not being generated by a Clear-Com product. This means I'll have to find the master unit and see if it has some kind of talk-off capability and, if so, how to disable it.

I think :) .
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Apr 11, 2016
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
What type of radio's are you using? I believe the sound you're hearing is often called a "roger beep" intended to tell you when a transmission has ended. I think your issue on the radio side not the clear com side.
Well, looks like you were right! I had thought the radios were disconnected when we still heard this beep, but they weren't. Turns out that one of our three RDU4100 Motorola radios is set to make that noise upon every release of the PTT button. The manual is, uh... murky. Any idea how to turn it off?
 

venuetech

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MRW Lights

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NYC
"To enable/disable End of Transmission Tone, short press the SB1 button while turning ON the radio. "
SB1 is directly bellow the PTT button. Not sure what they mean by "short press"
it is normal off by default, perhaps a battery removal will restore to default?

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/c...ser_guide_rdu2020-rdv2020-rdu4100-rdv5100.pdf page35

Short press typically means pressing and releasing the button once before the startup tone ends. I usually plug my radio in to the computer and use the programmer, much easier than programming on the portable for radios without on unit interfaces.

Thats my experience working with ham radios, but it's fairly universal through the commercial market also.
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Apr 11, 2016
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
"To enable/disable End of Transmission Tone, short press the SB1 button while turning ON the radio. "
SB1 is directly bellow the PTT button. Not sure what they mean by "short press"
it is normal off by default, perhaps a battery removal will restore to default?

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/c...ser_guide_rdu2020-rdv2020-rdu4100-rdv5100.pdf page35
Thanks, I found that manual too. Further down, it just says to hold down SB1 while turning on the radio. Amazingly, that's an older version of the manual, covering a couple of other radios besides the RDU4100. The more recent version, which covers the RDU4100 and some different other radios, makes no mention of the roger beep. The downloadable "Customer Programming Software," however, does show an option for it. One way or another, this looks like the culprit and the solution.
 

MRW Lights

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NYC
Thanks, I found that manual too. Further down, it just says to hold down SB1 while turning on the radio. Amazingly, that's an older version of the manual, covering a couple of other radios besides the RDU4100. The more recent version, which covers the RDU4100 and some different other radios, makes no mention of the roger beep. The downloadable "Customer Programming Software," however, does show an option for it. One way or another, this looks like the culprit and the solution.
You'll need a programming cable with a specific chip that will work for that radio. You can get them on amazon easy enough, but that should take care of it.
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
You'll need a programming cable with a specific chip that will work for that radio. You can get them on amazon easy enough, but that should take care of it.
The manual is a bit cryptic (gee, who expected that? :)), but I think one can use a typical USB cable and the charging base.

Hmph. As always, I amf frustrated by the lack of access combined with the lack of anyone whose job it is to know how things work. We only get a few hours in the school on each rehearsal day, and my colleagues do not see the act of my getting experiment with the electronics as a high priority (over, say, using the electronics). But this has been another profitable exchange on CB, as I now know what the problem really is, and have at least two ways I might solve it.
 

TimMc

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Feb 15, 2017
The manual is a bit cryptic (gee, who expected that? :)), but I think one can use a typical USB cable and the charging base.

Hmph. As always, I amf frustrated by the lack of access combined with the lack of anyone whose job it is to know how things work. We only get a few hours in the school on each rehearsal day, and my colleagues do not see the act of my getting experiment with the electronics as a high priority (over, say, using the electronics). But this has been another profitable exchange on CB, as I now know what the problem really is, and have at least two ways I might solve it.
Or you could just live with it until you have some non-rehearsal time to program the radios. In the grand scheme of things this seems trivial compared to other production needs.
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
Or you could just live with it until you have some non-rehearsal time to program the radios. In the grand scheme of things this seems trivial compared to other production needs.
It may seem that way in the context of a forum discussion, but it is so loud in my headset that it actually hurts my ear. Imagine a cap gun being fired right next to your head everytime you hear the stage manager say, "Go Lights Fourteen," and you'll be close.

Anyway, my point was that there isn't any "non-rehearsal time." The school unlocks its doors, we run in, rehearse almost continuously for four hours, then the school throws us out. They have some wonderful tech resources, but no one on the school staff knows how they work, so when they need study and reconfiguration, I am on my own, with no guidance, no documentation (unless I find it online), and little opportunity to try things. And, in all humility, not everything I try is always harmless, which means I sometimes have to undo what I did, just to maintain the status quo, and even that can be a challenge when the clock is ticking and the director is yelling, "Places!"
 

TimMc

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Stevens, this is a failure of company management to secure the time needed. If you are genuinely experiencing otological discomfort this should be brought up to the producer as he/she is liable for your safety and health as a worker (or volunteer). You're a lawyer, do some lawyerly research. There is no reason for you to roll over on this, nor should the health and safety of you or others take a back seat to the schedule - my soapbox says "period, end of discussion, and submit your resignation if necessary."
 
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Stevens R. Miller

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Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
You're a lawyer, do some lawyerly research. There is no reason for you to roll over on this, nor should the health and safety of you or others take a back seat to the schedule...
Heh. There is a practice guide for New York attorneys that, in its section on how to deal with a judge who is taking a long time to publish a ruling, describes a rarely used vehicle called a "motion for decision." The book goes on to explain that the reason it is rarely used is, not only will it produce a quick decision, it tends also to allow the lawyer who uses it to predict what that decision is going to be.

In this case, I'm the newcomer to a community theater company that has been around for about twenty years. If I can (most likely surreptitiously) fix this problem, that will be my preferred solution. I'm a bit agog that others have been willing to just live with this (at best) intrusive noise. But they have, so I think it isn't my place to start demanding changes. If, as the docs suggest, I need only turn on the offending radio while holding down its SB1 button, that's what I'll do, and no one need ever know that was more than a random act on my part. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a genuinely random act of a similar sort that made this radio start beeping in the first place.

We'll deal with it. We always do.
 

MNicolai

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They don't know what they don't know. I've had a couple schools that were primed and ready to gut their sound systems and after tuning, time aligning, checking polarity on the signal chain, and reprogramming the DSP they discovered a couple days work could save them $150,000 gut and redo. It didn't occur to anyone that it's possible all the right equipment was installed already and the system just wasn't tuned correctly.

With audio in particular, people have remarkably low expectations. The performance of a system is usually measured in channel counts and wireless mic systems and beyond that very few push the envelope to investigate things that don't seem to be working as well as they could or even at all. This is why we need more STEM education so we build up student bodies that are interested in discovery and capable of forging ahead without someone telling them to. I'm not saying it's time to allow sugary drinks in the control booths or basketball near the mix console but I see too many schools that are protecting the technology from the students. Either they don't have enough lighting/audio/video/etc systems to get students interested in or the systems they have are protected by a faculty member who only lets a few students assist from time to time. It's treated like there's some secret knowledge you have to be endowed with before you can even get close enough to learn what the different knobs do.

The easiest way to get a gig in this industry is be capable of finding solutions to problems and if you can't recognize that there's a problem or maybe you recognize that there's a problem but don't know which terms to type into Google to get you the right answer, there's nothing to set you apart from the other 20 resumes that came in the door.

[/end rant]
 

JohnA

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I am 100% in agreement with Mike N on this one. It is exactly how I got back into theater after a long hiatus. Schools typically have little or no documentation, and rely on these high tech systems to work perfectly "right out of the box", with no mods.

Stevens, continue your quest. Having PM'd you in the past, I know you share the same work ethic and philosophy: we are not looking for recognition; we want to contribute in a worthwhile way.

If you continue to have issues with a Motorola product, PM me as I have an extensive background in their portable radios, and have access to advanced level resources.
 

Stevens R. Miller

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Apr 11, 2016
Location
Loudoun County, Virginia, USA
Stevens, continue your quest. Having PM'd you in the past, I know you share the same work ethic and philosophy: we are not looking for recognition; we want to contribute in a worthwhile way.

If you continue to have issues with a Motorola product, PM me as I have an extensive background in their portable radios, and have access to advanced level resources.
It's quite the journey.

Thanks again, all!
 
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