How would you light a fake stained glass window to simulate the sun?

[LesWilson]

So our set designer wants to use a starch and dye on muslin technique to create a 6' diameter round stained glass window for Sound of Music. Weight and size have to accomodate stage hands putting it on and off during performance. The trick is lighting it in a way that looks like it's a window to the outside and is dimmable with 90's era incandescent ETC dimmers.

I've seen the technique used in Hollywood backdrops but only for relatively small windows in a small area:

I built a small prototype of thin pine/ply and used 1/2" XPS strips for the leading with diffusion gel for "glass" and incandescent Christmas tree lights in the various "panes" created by the XPS. This was no good as the lighting was uneven from pane to pane and the individual light sources bleed through.

So we are back to square one. I am thinking I can build a 6' ring with minimal flex and the scenic folks will create a starch and dyed muslin cover. The trick is lighting it evenly from behind with a single light source and not having spill into the audience eyes. This seems like a gigantic softbox. Getting a big 6' field from a single source is the trick. For reference, and ETC Par with wide angle lens needs 8 feet for a 6' field. I am fine with making custom fixtures but I'm hoping for a solution that isn't 8' deep. LOL.

Ideas? TIA

 

[almorton]

I'd suggest instead of incandescent, line the boxes with LED tape and paint the inside of the boxes white. Make sure that the light from the tape only exits by reflection, so the tape itself isn't visible, and you'll get a decent even glow. Dimming will need a specialised dimmer, of course, rather than being plugged into a standard dimmer circuit, but these aren't costly.

 

[StradivariusBone]

We did this for Christmas Carol a ways back and did the LED tape. The set was a pair of revolves, so the idea was that the windows would be boxed on both sides with muslin and lit in the middle with the tape. That way you could switch to interior/exterior and the color on the window would indicate time of day, set, etc.

It worked well, but it did not spread evenly. The camera exaggerates the effect, but we only did the top and bottom of the window:

Hindsight being 20/20, we should have boxed the entire perimeter with the tape, but I think that too would have issues with a dark spot in the middle.

The only other thing I think might help is adding a secondary (or primary technically) diffuser inside the box somehow, between the muslin "pane" and the light source, to diffuse it before it hits the final piece (if that makes sense?) We just got a long, thin softbox from Godox that has something like this. The final diffuser is the outside, but on the inside is a smaller piece of diffusion that hangs about halfway between the lamp and the outside diffusion media.

 

[LesWilson]

We did this for Christmas Carol a ways back and did the LED tape. The set was a pair of revolves, so the idea was that the windows would be boxed on both sides with muslin and lit in the middle with the tape. That way you could switch to interior/exterior and the color on the window would indicate time of day, set, etc.

It worked well, but it did not spread evenly. The camera exaggerates the effect, but we only did the top and bottom of the window:
View attachment 23766
Hindsight being 20/20, we should have boxed the entire perimeter with the tape, but I think that too would have issues with a dark spot in the middle.

The only other thing I think might help is adding a secondary (or primary technically) diffuser inside the box somehow, between the muslin "pane" and the light source, to diffuse it before it hits the final piece (if that makes sense?) We just got a long, thin softbox from Godox that has something like this. The final diffuser is the outside, but on the inside is a smaller piece of diffusion that hangs about halfway between the lamp and the outside diffusion media.

Thanks for sharing this experience. The two layer diffusion is exactly how a softbox works. One layer halfway between the light source and outer layer. We are trying to go the incandescent route so we can have a long "sunrise" dim up effect controlled by our console.

 

[seanandkate]

I may be "under-thinking" this, but is there a reason you have discounted the use of using gel to create the glass on the back of the muslin and just lighting it with ellipsoidals from behind (maybe not enough throw distance)? Easier to take on and off quickly, it will look more like stained glass, and it will still work with incandescent dimmers.

 

[Dionysus]

A (very) long time ago (in highschool), for a production of The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus (that was entered in a drama competition) I did this. We used "stained glass paint" and faux leading (I forget what we used exactly) on plexiglass.
I lit it with three lights, one to hit the stage to create the effect on the floor, one going more or less straight through to better illuminate the glass and a third between cut to put more light on the cross in the image for certain moments.

https://www.deviantart.com/dionysuspsi/art/The-Two-Angels-8889985

Since I've done similar effects a few different ways mainly already mentioned above. This particular example is still my favorite.

 

[LesWilson]

I may be "under-thinking" this, but is there a reason you have discounted the use of using gel to create the glass on the back of the muslin and just lighting it with ellipsoidals from behind (maybe not enough throw distance)? Easier to take on and off quickly, it will look more like stained glass, and it will still work with incandescent dimmers.

I didn't think of an ellipsoidal. I think I have a 36 degree and an electric that might do the trick nicely with maybe 10' of throw.

 

[JonCarter]

Just a thought: Make your 'window' out of 1/2" AC 5-ply, jig-sawed with your desired pattern. Leave about 3/8"-1/2" strips between openings (for the "leading") and paint the finished cutout piece, all sides & edges, black or dark grey. Glue pieces of color media (gel? plastic? whatever) over the openings to color the window segments as desired. (Suggest using only vivid, bright colors.) Cover the whole window with VERY light frost media or tissue paper sprayed with WD40 or similar. You want just enough diffusion to prevent the audience seeing through the window but not enough to fully diffuse the light coming through. Mount in your wall as required. Light from above and behind using a 2kW or 5kW parabolic beam projector. You will have 'sunlight' projecting the pattern onto your stage floor.

 

[gafftaper]

I borrowed a false proscenium for Beauty and the Beast. At the top was a beautiful "stain glass" rose about 4'x4' . I didn't make it, but I assume it was starch and dye. I just put a Source 4 behind it carefully shuttered and soft focus. It looked great.

 

[jtweigandt]

single source light for the window. I find that if you use plexi and stained glass paint you need a layer of tissue diffusion behind. If you use the muslin it should diffuse nicely. Now the trick that I use for this kind of thing... don't aim your light directly at it. You'll go crazy with hot spots etc. Instead use something like a source four or a parnel and "skim" it's surface at a shallow angle like you might to light a cyc, but from behind of course. Did this on multiple occasions.. the skim will make you happy

 

[Lasermike]

Here’s a couple of out of the box solutions.

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One uses led tape and home made diffusers, the other uses the back light from a trash led tv. I lost track of which is which

Michael

 

[DanAyers]

Rosco Lite Pads work great but don't rule out LED Ceiling panels or artist light boxes. Go shopping at Home Depot you might be surprised.
The secret is you want a nice even fill light. When you light Stained Glass, the magic is when it really brightens up all of the glass. Don't overthink it.

 

[Crisp image]

Here’s a couple of out of the box solutions.

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One uses led tape and home made diffusers, the other uses the back light from a trash led tv. I lost track of which is which

Michael

I like the second one with the old screen. If you used RGB Led strips the possibilities are endless. Imagine having a sunrise or sunset coming through a window over a long cue.

 

[LesWilson]

Just to follow up, I was able to construct a 5' circle using two layers of 3/4" XPS with alternating spokes of cedar and 3/4" XPS. The wall is 2x2 covered with RAMboard. The scenic artists are still working on it but a 26 degree Leko with a snoot from an upstage pipe at around 8' away does the job nicely. The wedges of glass were hand made by the scenic department using a sandwich of gel material in between clear vinyl. The small leading was hand drawn with a marker. It's kinda too shiny at certain angles but quite glorious in show lighting properly lit from behind. The reflection on the floor is exquisite. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[almorton]

That looks great. Well done.

 

[seanandkate]

Looks really nice! Well done to you and your team.