How young is too young to operate or position equipment?

[JLNorthGA]

We're an all volunteer group in a rural area. Not a lot of people willing or able to work in the catwalk. Our older volunteers would not be safe (e.g. Mark is 70+, doesn't do well on his knees, etc.) and in most instances don't possess the balance or dexterity anymore. They are okay on the light board and can operate that.

A young man (rising 8th grade) wants to learn the ropes so to speak. I'm okay with it, his mother and father are okay with it. One of our director's isn't (one who used to teach high school drama). I don't have to listen to her if I don't want to listen to her - but I'd rather not have to listen to her complain.

I realize that some of the members here are high school age - and some (like myself) left high school way back when (think of Southeast Asian conflicts) - so I figured I'd ask y'all what you thought. How young is too young to work? Would you have an age limit? We have programs for youth that involve performance (dance, acting, singing) - but not tech. Should I push to involve more youth in the technical aspects? Should I go on a case by case basis?

Opinions, please.

 

[Amiers]

I think high school is a great starting age to get actual hands on experience but I wouldn't set up a tech program unless you have the staff to manage more then a handful of kids because you will then get the kids that kinda want to be there but don't really care and mess around nothing gets done and some one is at risk of injury. I think one or two kids is fine after you beat them with the safety rod and tell them there is no stupid question and to always ask them and a kid having common sense is a plus too. Just my opinion.

 

[Footer]

Is this a farm/auto shop/dirt bike/boy scout type kid? If so, go for it. If not, stay close. Either way I was climbing around in cat walk much earlier and never killed anyone.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[venuetech]

I think much of it depends on your insurance. you would want to be sure his activities are covered. Personally i think something like that is great, I got started in 8th or 9th grade. Our insurance does not want someone under 16 on a ladder or AWP. There is no reason not to have youth involved in tech. Keep safe work practices at the forefront of their training.

 

[AudJ]

Err, I work in a middle school, and my whole crew is grade 6-8. I will point out that the school accepts liability, but they do everything except load and balance weight, which we do when no students are present. Assigned tasks are very specific, and monitored by adults at all times. Work is inspected by me after completetion also. We run about 25 events per year, with one major musical. There are also about 10-15 events from outside that come to our stage that we prepare.

Our high school benefits from a pre-trained staff waiting to take over. I once asked a veteran teacher why his expectations were so much higher for his students than anyone else. The reply: "If you don't expect it, you'll never get it!"

Set high expectations for the kid, and don't be surprised by the performance you get in return...

 

[techieman33]

I think much of it depends on your insurance. you would want to be sure his activities are covered. Personally i think something like that is great, I got started in 8th or 9th grade. Our insurance does not want someone under 16 on a ladder or AWP. There is no reason not to have youth involved in tech. Keep safe work practices at the forefront of their training.

I agree about the insurance company, if they aren't going to cover something you need to know about it. For me I would determine it on a case by case basis, just like I do at work with a bunch of adults. Some people can handle it and some can't. Start slowly and keep preaching safety. Once you start to get to know them you'll be able to get a better feel for how fast they can learn and how they handle themselves in an environment like that.

My first 2 years of high school we had a great/bad teacher that would let us do just about everything. Some of us were loading weight a month or two into our freshman year, changing plugs on cables, replacing lamps, you name it we were doing it. The few of us that were really into the tech side learned a whole lot in a hurry those two years I loved every minute of it. On the other side there was always that danger factor with all of that stuff. She always did her best to keep a close eye on us but with 25 kids running around there is always a chance of something bad happening. We were probably going above and beyond what we really should have been doing.

My last 2 years I didn't learn a thing. We got a new teacher and he really didn't have the technical background to teach us much. He was also a lot more safety conscious, everything was seen as dangerous to him. Those of us that had spent a couple of years with the other teacher were still able to do a lot of the stuff we did before since he was still feeling his way through things. I felt sorry for his new students though, all they got the first year was classroom time. There only shop time was at the end of they year where they each built one small 1'x2' flat.

I've been back in that theater a couple of times in the 9 years since I've been out of school and it's a totally different place (he's still the teacher.) Part of the deal is you have to hire a couple of students to help. I couldn't believe how little they knew. These were all seniors, and they didn't know how to focus a light, change a lamp, program the board, anything. Pretty much all they are allowed to do now is assemble sets from premade flats and platforms and then paint them. Oh and they get to move submasters up and down during the show. They were amazed when I programmed a cue stack and had one of them press go during the show. They didn't know that was even possible (ETC Express 48/96.) The kids aren't learning much, but they sure are safe, other than an occasional splinter.

I guess what I'm trying to say is it's all a balance and you'll have to find your own middle ground that works for you and kids that your trying to teach. Of course there is always that previously mentioned insurance company that will have the final say to a certain extent.

 

[carsonld]

I myself being in high school (10th grade) think it is a great idea. I am very passionate about lighting design and set design. I really would like to go to college for this. As long as you are being safe, I think any age is okay. Just make sure this person knows the rules.

 

[BillESC]

I started at 15 years old in 1965. In 1973 I started Entertainment Systems. Still at it.

 

[zmb]

I've done everything related to conventional lighting since junior high and still have all 10 fingers. All under supervision of course.

 

[lwinters630]

A child starts learning at birth. By the age of 1 he has already learned how to get you to feed and change him on command.

Seriously, Kids are never too young to start learning, responsibility is a whole different question. I have had many kids who started in middle school and went on to be professionals in the theater areas, some have even started their own companies. A lot depends on the kid. That said they are kids with only partially developed brains fueled by hormones, keep safety at the very top of the list and double check every thing. A child that shows the initiative will soon excel when challenged.

Catwalks? That may depend on how safe they are? fenced, netted or tethered? Still, high school age may be better.

As for directors, unless they are your direct boss, you are responsible for your decisions and the actions of your helpers.

 

[Jakepugh15]

I say if there interested let them go for it, it's very rare to find people young that are into technical theater. im a junior in high school, i started doing light design my freshman year. and already i work at a performing art's center working load in's/outs and at a arena doing production... ive been up on the beams, learned how to rig. run the video board/ light board/ sound board. if there motivated and they dont dick around... let them go for it

 

[Brayidur]

I just graduated high school, for anything on ground (IE, setting up strip lights in a box truss, setting up mics, running a board...ETC ) i say 6th grade is fine. I was the technical director my senior year, I did not let anyone below 16, on a ladder, in the lift, or on the catwalk, UNLESS They've worked along side me in said enviorment, and no one else, is willing/able to, or if no one else is available at the time. However beginning of the 4th quarter of senior year they said no students were allowed to be on a ladder or in the lift...lets just say that didn't sit to well with myself and other seniors who were on ladders as freshman. ( Back then we had a different TD as we do every year, who said get it done now essentially. ) and whenever someone was becoming qualified to operate the lift, or be on a ladder, or up on that catwalk ( Qualified as in turning 16 ) I would do a safety training with them alone 1 on 1 so they paid attention.

 

[gafftaper]

I started running sound in 5th grade. I started teaching my Son to coil a cable at 7 years old. I've used 6th graders as follow spot operators, curtain operators, and a 7th grader as a stage manager. Age is not important, what is important is maturity, attention to detail and your ability to teach inspire and manage. I would have no problem with an 8th grader doing lots of things. I wouldn't send him up on a ladder to do the no handed tango while hanging a light fixture, but there are many other tasks I would be happy to train him do. Start him out with some basics, like helping with Gel and cable on a light hang or running the light board with a SM close by, see what responsibilities he can be trusted with, then add a little more to his plate.

 

[David Ashton]

I started in amateur dramatics at 13, ballroom stage manager at 14,[country town], carried on SM and DJ through my apprenticeship, then started business, my son started earlier, helping from around 4, lighting and sound design for school disco's at 8, learnt the Innovator and lit moving light rigs at 12, the only pain working with him was his constant nagging about my being more careful up ladders and is this safe, like having your own personal safety officer, so age is really no gauge, only attitude, just like kids on farms drive tractors and work machinery, kids in theatre families pick up the business by osmosis. If a kid of any age wants to learn I teach them, if they don't, forget it, and nowadays they can pick up so much training on youtube, if they're motivated.

 

[techietim]

I volunteer at a theatre in the UK, the age limit of being a member is 16. You have to be a member to take part in shows (teching or acting).

However, I did start with very limited stuff I could do, at the age of 15. I was always working with one of the Senior Stage Managers though.

 

[BobHealey]

I think it depends a lot on the particular theater and the condition of its auditorium and the local laws. I spend at lot of time in 4 different physical spaces, and what I'd let someone do/what people are allowed to do varies a lot on the space.
Venue #1 has no way of accessing the lighting pipes except via a 1 person genie lift, so I don't want anyone untrained in how to properly hang a light going up regardless of age. Light Op, Spot Op, Audio, Set, Running Crew are fair game for those with the ability to get themselves to the theater.
Venue #2 is at a a college, anyone can do anything provided they've been checked out on it first, provided they are a current student, or, under the current rule set, an invited alum.
Venue #3 is at a high school. Production company rules are catwalk access granted on a case by case basis, and adults only on the very sketchy fly system that is in dire need of a professional tune up.
Venue #4 has a 12 ft pipe grid, and minors in tech has not come up yet, but I imagine it will be similar to Venue #1, except there is a 6' scaffold to reach the fixtures so new folks can be taught in place/supervised.

 

[cnnrward]

i remember doing a tech theatre camp in 7th grade. was spot op in the catwalks then. i don't see a problem unless insurance is a problem.

 

[JLNorthGA]

Had a training session with the young man in question. More interested in sound than lights. Not really enthused enough IMO.

 

[AlexDonkle]

I starting doing theatre tech in the 6th grade at my school, and still alive today.

My experience starting out though was that while I enjoyed working on shows, several of my friends were doing tech as well which was definitely a factor in me staying with it.

 

[museav]

I believe there are two sides to the situation. One is what the individual can handle, which can be very subjective and different for each individual. The other is what insurers, local laws, etc. allow, which is usually objective and the same for all. How much of each aspect can or has to be applied may differ from one situation to another.

What would the child potentially be doing and how would that be controlled? In grade school I ran projectors, turned on and adjusted sound systems and flipped light switches so you could probably argue that I did 'tech', but that is a far cry from the situations, conditions and dangers potentially involved in other settings. What may seems like it may be a challenge in your situation is that you apparently have people who can perform many of the tasks that might be good opportunities for any youth involvement while where you apprently most need help may be for some of the more physically demanding or dangerous actions that may not be the best place for youth to be involved, much less starting.

When you say the parents are "okay" with it does that mean they have informally said that they are okay with their child participating or that they are willing to sign a legal document relieving the venue and others of all liability and agreeing to not sue the venue or others for any related cause under any conditions? I'm still not sure that would have much meaning if there were claims of negligence but I will say from experience that if something goes wrong or does not turn out the way they wanted it then the view of the parents, public and the legal system will usually be that of the youth being considered a child regardless of what may have been previously agreed to by the parents or the youth.