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HPR 153i in auditorium???

Discussion in 'Sound, Music, and Intercom' started by feedbackdj, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. feedbackdj

    feedbackdj Member

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    Location:
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    Looking for input, pro or otherwise, on the following:
    Flying 2- HPR153i's and an EAW JFL118 in an 800 seat high school auditorium.
    I'm only using the EAW because QSC doesn't make a flyable powered sub (unless I missed it)
    The HPR's will be on either side of the stage and the EAW in the cloud over the front of the stage.
    The system I'm using now is just 2 MTXPWR115's powered by a crown xls402 and really doesn't sound that bad, but it is time to upgrade for the love of God!!!

    We simply can't afford to do much more than the cost of this system and this is pushing it. Any help/advice/criticism is appreciated!!!!

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Without knowing the dimensions of the room, rake of the seating area, ceiling height and any acoustical treatments there is no responsible way to recommend a speaker cabinet or type.

    More information would be required for a meaningful response.
     
  3. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    Occupation:
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    My theater has an 18" JBL ASB6118 subwoofer. It's big, hungry, rigged for flying, and quite reasonably priced. My audio system is a combination of Electrovoice ZX1's, ZX5's, and the JBL sub... but what work's in my space may not work in yours. I have to agree with Bill that you really need an expert to take a listen to your space and make a recommendation. Most local theater and audio dealers I know would be glad to send someone over to make a recommendation and write up a price quote. It would be a shame to spend a chunk of change on a sound system and find out later it sounds like crap because you didn't get an expert in to listen to the space.

    Where are you located? Maybe we can make some recommendations for dealers in the area to help you out.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2009
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  4. brohde

    brohde Member

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    QSC does make a flyable powered sub its called the WL3082 i havent tested it yet but it looks realible
     
  5. feedbackdj

    feedbackdj Member

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    I guess part of the problem is the fact that I'm having to kiss a lot of hiney just hoping to get some equipment.

    I've been really impressed with the HPR153i when I've heard them else where. They have the same coverage as the MTX's that I have in there now. In theory the QSCs will be about 3 feet higher than the current placement of the MTX's on either side of the stage.
    I've been in almost every seat in the auditorium and there is currently no pink noise in any seat at all. I'm really looking for just a little more SPL.

    Just looking to get a suggestion how anyone feels about this equipment in general for up to 800 people. It is a common fan auditorium: 80' deep, 50' wide, 25' - 15' high ceilings front to back of house, floor slope goes along with a slightly steeper rise; Absorption panels on the entire back wall, fire treated celings, staggered brick walls from top to bottom on the sides; fully carpeted asiles, none under the seats. I love the accoustics in the place. That's why my MTX's sound so good;:)

    I'm located in Muncie Indiana, 50 miles east and a little north of Indianapolis.

    Thanks for your time!!!!!
     
  6. Franklights

    Franklights Member

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    Location:
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    I like the HPR speakers and they will do you good. if you do musical events or a movie night I would recommend either 2 subs or one larger sub. You can never have enough low end for the dynamics in different styles of music. The same amp you were going to use for it should power both speakers and you will moving twice as much air.

    You might even consider leaving the subs on the floor and using them as an add on to the venue for events. Roll them in when you need them. a little extra revenue never hurt the budget any. Besides the HPR153 has a great full sound that may pull off most events such as plays, talking heads and some runway shows. For musical events up the charge with the subs.

    Good Luck!
     
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  7. BillESC

    BillESC Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Have you considered a center cluster instead of the traditional left right hang? With a space such as yours you'll have less comb filtering and reflection off of the side walls.

    Attached are two models we did for a church install. One is a center cluster the other the traditional L/R hang. This particular installation ended up with three EV FRi 152 cabinets as a center cluster because the space was 80' wide by 50' deep. Your space would only need two cabinets to achieve the same results.
     

    Attached Files:

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  8. Franklights

    Franklights Member

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    good suggestion if stereo is not an issue.
     
  9. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    You noted "I've been in almost every seat in the auditorium and there is currently no pink noise in any seat at all. I'm really looking for just a little more SPL." There may be some confusion in terminology occurring, can you clarify pink noise comment? Are you saying that the coverage with the current speakers is good throughout the house at all frequencies? Are you saying that the existing speakers are flown left and right and that there is no combfiltering or other anomalies resulting from this stereo configuration? That you have good intelligibility everywhere in the house? In addition, do you have any idea of how much additional level you want or if it is perhaps more a factor of the system response than just the overall level? Has anyone verified that what you have is properly adjusted and operating optimally? Unless there really is only one factor that could stand to be improved, then it seems that if you are going to spend money on an 'upgrade' it would make sense to address as many existing issues and incorporate as many improvements as possible.

    Specific to the speakers noted, getting rid of the MTX speakers is probably a good idea. MTX does not offer much data on the PWR115, although providing any information on an older model is better than some manufacturers, however I see nothing that indicates these are intended to be flown, so unless this is imply not identified or they were properly modified to be flown, they should really come down. The HPR153 does have rigging points and there is a rigging kit available, but you are limited to two points on the top of the box towards the front and one point low on the back, so not a lot of flexibility in rigging.

    The HPR153i is a good speaker for many applications. However, a speaker or system approach that is good for a band performing in a club is not necessarily a good choice for an auditorium where the sound system's primary role may be for speech reproduction and where factors such as intelligibility and coverage may be much more important. Similar to how you probably consider the use when purchasing a car, you should also consider the use when looking at audio system designs and components. Identifying and addressing the intended use of the system is important in making any equipment or system choices and our not knowing the intended use or expectations limits the relevant comments or suggestions that can be offered.

    I would think twice about temporary subs unless you can easily configure the system for the different operating modes and are able to support the related setup effort. Being a high school auditorium, you may be much more concerned with supporting a wide variety of events for many different groups, and often on short notice and with limited resources, than you are about factors such as deriving revenue from the system. And while putting subs on the ground can potentially provide 'loading' for more output (at least at some frequencies and often less than expected), this is also often at the expense of issues such as the levels varying quite a bit more over the seating area versus a flown sub. Having subs to either side can create a 'power alley' effect with a lot of bass down the middle with areas of low and varying levels due to interference between the two subs outside that center area. These issues may not be a factor in a club where people can move around to find the sound they like, but they can be much more of a factor in an auditorium with fixed, and often assigned for some uses, seating.

    Maybe you have considered this aspect, but it could be a critical consideration. Looking beyond the equipment itself, what will be involved in effort and cost for rigging the new speakers, getting power to them, running line level cable in place of the existing speaker cable, tuning the system and adjusting any system processing after the speakers are in, etc.? The speakers are likely just a portion of the total cost involved and if you are having difficulty getting the funding for the equipment then you may be quite a bit short for the overall effort involved. And when trying to make improvements it usually makes little sense to spend money on the equipment and then cut corners on how it is implemented.
     
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  10. feedbackdj

    feedbackdj Member

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    ****!!! This forum is awesome!!!

    "No pink noise" meaning loss of high frequency??? If that's what it means... then yes I have no pink noise. I've often walked the auditorium during events to make sure the clarity is there. No echo or any of the sort during speech or music. The only thing I really have a problem with is the lower spectrum, maybe 200Hz and down about 10' from the front of the stage. Other than that it sounds pretty good. The MTX's are on tripods on stage about 7' up...definitely not suspended. Can you explain what you mean by properly adjusted? Processed and eq'd?

    We do everything in the auditorium... Choir concerts, band performances, plays, meetings, talent shows (with lots of rap music), movie showings, etc. so the system must be versatile that's why the HPR153i's are so appealing to me. The subs will not be portable but flown in the cloud above the very front of the stage. Electric, signal lines and rigging are something that I'll do after I get an architect to approve the weight on the beams. The good thing is that I'll be doing the adjusting so it will be set up as well as possible. The other schools in our corporation have had systems installed by "pro's" and I get many compliments from people from outside the building (school board members, other principals, etc.) saying how good our auditorium sounds, which is pretty sad considering what I have to work with...

    This concludes the first chapter of my memoirs...

    I hope I've answered all of your questions... Thanks everyone for the input!!! I'm loving it!!!
     
  11. waynehoskins

    waynehoskins Active Member

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    Pink noise is a reference signal that's used to measure system response. It contains equal energy per octave, as opposed to white noise that contains equal energy per decade. A common method of tuning a system involves piping pink noise through it, and measuring various points in the audience chamber with a real-time spectrum analyser. These data are used to adjust system filters (EQ, for example) and voice the PA and balance fill systems for even coverage and consistent response at as many seats as possible.

    By saying you have "no pink noise at any seats", you said that if you pink the room you can't hear it at any of the seats -- which would mean that the PA covers none of the seats!
     
  12. museav

    museav CBMod CB Mods Departed Member

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    I assumed that the existing system was a permanently installed system rather than speakers on sticks (that's not derogatory, just a way of saying portable speakers on stands). The HPR153i would be much more at home on that type of setting and probably a big improvement from your existing speakers.

    Yes. I don't know what signal processng, if any, that you currently have but with signficant changes in both the system and components, you would almost certainly need to adjust what you have and perhaps add some other processing. For example, since you are adding subs, what are you planning to do for a crossover? Adjustments could also encompass aspects such as aiming the speakers for the best coverage.
     

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