Control/Dimming HS Theater Renovation Advice

[anjorizz]

Hello, my name is Anthony Rizzo and I apologize if this topic has become a broken record but I seek a little more specific advice for my situation.

I'm one of the IT personnel at a High School and my wife directs the plays. I recently just took over the Technical Director position for the theater to take some of the load off of her.

Our theater has become pretty outdated and the Fine Arts supervisor has come to me to plan a couple of different budgets to upgrade our equipment. I'm going to be planning a "Band-Aid" budget, a mid-range budget and a dream machine budget. This is becoming more and more of a dead line project as our ETC Express 48/96 board just fried on us and our dimmer rack ghosts lights once in a while.

I seek some advice in upgrading mainly the board and dimmer rack.

We currently have a Strand Century (I believe they renamed to Strand Lighting?) CD80 dimmer rack with 72x 2.4KW 120VAC 60HZ modules; 144 physical electrical circuits. We had and are currently renting an ETC Express 4896 board.

We have an 80 3/4' wide by 36 1/4' deep stage with an auditorium that holds around 800 people. We have a cat walk for lighting but it's so close to the stage that they suspended 5x T-bars across the auditorium for lighting.

We have a bunch of 6x9's, 6x18's, scoops and Frennels (not sure how to spell), all older lighting with no modern lights. We have two very...very... old spot lights. I want to see what I can do about replacing these with Source4's a couple at a time, but I definitely have to replace the spots as they are bigger than most kids and have had some close calls being dropped a few times.

I have been told that 19 degree Source 4's are a good alternative.

My main reason for creating this topic is that I would really appreciate some opinions that I can compare to technical specifications and demos in order to form a better decision.

1) what should I be looking for in a new dimmer rack. we would prefer not to overspend on the small budgets, but maybe add more circuits and expand for the dream budget. We currently are on all stage-pin connections. but I believe we have a dmx module that ties into the rack with 1 connection on it.

2) is their a particular manufacturer that is generally recommended for reliability and support.

3) for the lighting board, should I be looking into the same manufacturer as the rack? does the overall system work better when the board and dimmer rack come from the same place.

4) an ex student who has pretty much managed the tech for years, is a dj for a living and is now going to college for theater tech mentioned that he has had a lot of problems with the ETC Element. Does anyone have further opinions on that particular board. He LOVED the ION when we rented one the other year but since it's pricier, it might not make it onto the Band-Aid or mid-range budgets.

5) as all the kids who really had a passion for theater tech have graduated, that pretty much just leaves me. I have learned a great deal in a short amount of time but am no expert. I need a board that is not to complicated to spot fix when small problems arise and some what intuitive to program if we rent moving lights or gel scrollers or color blasts, etc... manufacturer support would also be some what of a big deal.

I appreciate any advice that anyone can give on any matter.

 

[JohnD]

Welcome, you've come to the right place. Oh yeah, it's Fresnel.
There are still a lot of CD80 racks in service, do a search for CD80 to get an idea on what problems others have had and how they took care of the problems. Have you contacted ETC about your fried Express? Who knows, there might be help available.
1) Replacement might be OK for the dream budget, but for now I think getting your current system checked out would make more sense.
2) ETC without a doubt.
3) If the dimmer rack is dmx then it doesn't matter.
4)The Element is a very popular board for your application. Yes an Ion is better but do you really need it.
5) Recruiting crew is a frequent issue. This has been discussed many times here. The idea is to keep adding newer, younger people to your tech team. Do a search for "king of the booth" syndrome.
Post some pictures of your space, and keep asking questions.

 

[TheaterEd]

4) If I could afford and Ion with a fader wing, I would have one. I can't, and I don't. I have an Element and it does everything I need it to do and more.
If you are renting movers on a consistent basis, then the Ion might worth the dough, but for everything else you will be just fine with an element. The Element will handle movers just fine, but the Ion is a little easier. The Element is very user friendly. I frequently train board ops for rentals and hour or two before their show.
That said, there are plenty of other boards out there, call your local dealer and get a demo unit or two if you can.

5) I find advertisement is key. There are plenty of kids that would love to help, but they just don't know that it is an option. Have a meeting, hang up signs, have the school make announcements, buy pizza if you have to, but when they find out what is involved behind the scenes, they will be interested. Giving 'behind the scenes' tours to middle school drama groups and discounted tickets to the high school shows is a great way to recruit as well. Also, if your school has an 'us versus them' attitude with the actors and techs, then squash that ASAP. Almost all of my actors show up to at least one work call to build or paint when they aren't rehearsing. One last idea, Siblings. Your actors have siblings that I'm sure would be willing to help, you just need to ask them.

 

[anjorizz]

Thank you for the replies. What time interval do you think this rack should be serviced at? Once a year? Two years? I was thinking of looking for replacements with dmx front end capabilities as a dream budget but the more I read about it the more the CD80 sounds like a champ; and now I just heard about the Johnson Systems CD-3k to achieve any dmx front end "upgrading" down the line if we ever need it.

It's not that I need the capability now anyway. I have a box that I can get one loop of DMX lighting for when we need it and, correct me if I'm wrong, but DMX lights can be daisy chained together anyway and you just set their address on the light.

Are there any other manufacturers for lighting boards that you would consider giving ETC a run for their money? A company that is even worth looking into next to ETC.

 

[RickR]

Basic service first: Check your dimmer rack for air filters. Get a district electrician to help you remove the dimmer modules and blow/vacuum out the dust. Chances are good this hasn't been done in years. I've noticed that in most schools anything with an interval longer than every year, gets forgotten or delayed. There are many reasons to upgrade the entire rack, the main one is getting non-dim power for LEDs.

There are dozens of possible light boards out there. Do a little searching here for many discussions on what to buy, several are about schools. Consider Pathway Cognito and avoid the computer with a wing/dongle. They get fiddled with as I'm sure you understand.

DMX: Yes they daisy chain, up to 32 on a string. A terminator is a good thing. Don't use mic cable even if you have 3-pin connections.

 

[Les]

I was going to also suggest the Pathway Cognito. However for your situation, my first recommendation is the Element. Not that the Pathway would be unsuitable for an all-or-mostly conventional rig - I just think given your situation, an Element is a better fit. I have never heard of any problems with it - must be an anomaly (either the kid or the console - you choose ).

I would not replace the dimmer rack if you can help it - especially not with another dimmer rack since you're not really gaining anything. The CD-80, once tuned up, is really as good as you need (yes you've heard correct; the things are beasts).

Now the following is just a guide. I would highly advise having a professional come in to advise, since they will consider variables you haven't thought of.
If anything, I'd look at having the electrical infrastructure expanded by adding a relay panel (such as the ETC Echo) and installing 120v circuits/Data around the space (controlled by Echo). Then you can begin adding LEDs to your heart's content and hopefully someday even phase out the CD-80's completely. But I wouldn't invest in dimmers for anything other than a basic cleaning/servicing/making it right again.

Then, phase in Source Fours (or whichever) as needed while relegating your older instruments to less-critical lighting needs. If I were to build a list, I'd say:

Shoestring:
• Service existing dimmer rack(s)
• Service existing instruments
• Repair ETC Express if possible
• Re-lamp if needed

Good:
• Service existing dimmer rack(s)
• Service existing instruments
• Install Echo panel w/120v distribution including wall/floor
• Run data to lighting locations including wall/floor
• Purchase console
• Add "X" number of ETC Source Fours
• Budget LED Package (Elation SixPars, et al)

Best:
• Same as "Best" but with as many upper-quality LEDs as you can get your hands on (though the SixPars are still very good).
• ETC Ion for control
• The sky is the limit. But the idea is that you could at least build off the "good" package to eventually get close to your 'dream machine' package.

Also important:
• Accessibility - architectural controls. Do you have wall (entry) stations? Do you want them? If you have them, do they need upgrades?
• Is there a cyc in the equation? Do you want one?
• Worklights?
• Houselights?
• Sounds like your rigging/lighting positions could use attention

Followspots -- what model do you have? Most are huge - I'd look more at training and how/where they are located. A 19° Source Four (with accessories, known as a Source Four On A Stick) can get you by, and quite well, but I wouldn't do it if you already have serviceable 'real' followspots.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

At the risk of sounding self serving, hire a consultant. They should be the best and strongest ally in building support for major upgrade. All of the above advicecis good, but pretty narrow to lighting, and there is usually a lot more to consider.

 

[lwinters630]

Having gone through several renovation I agree with Bill.
Also don't ask for the minimum. Ask what should you reasonably have in your space to make it work.

 

[Massey28694]

Hello, my name is Anthony Rizzo and I apologize if this topic has become a broken record but I seek a little more specific advice for my situation.

I'm one of the IT personnel at a High School and my wife directs the plays. I recently just took over the Technical Director position for the theater to take some of the load off of her.

Our theater has become pretty outdated and the Fine Arts supervisor has come to me to plan a couple of different budgets to upgrade our equipment. I'm going to be planning a "Band-Aid" budget, a mid-range budget and a dream machine budget. This is becoming more and more of a dead line project as our ETC Express 48/96 board just fried on us and our dimmer rack ghosts lights once in a while.

I seek some advice in upgrading mainly the board and dimmer rack.

We currently have a Strand Century (I believe they renamed to Strand Lighting?) CD80 dimmer rack with 72x 2.4KW 120VAC 60HZ modules; 144 physical electrical circuits. We had and are currently renting an ETC Express 4896 board.

We have an 80 3/4' wide by 36 1/4' deep stage with an auditorium that holds around 800 people. We have a cat walk for lighting but it's so close to the stage that they suspended 5x T-bars across the auditorium for lighting.

We have a bunch of 6x9's, 6x18's, scoops and Frennels (not sure how to spell), all older lighting with no modern lights. We have two very...very... old spot lights. I want to see what I can do about replacing these with Source4's a couple at a time, but I definitely have to replace the spots as they are bigger than most kids and have had some close calls being dropped a few times.

I have been told that 19 degree Source 4's are a good alternative.

My main reason for creating this topic is that I would really appreciate some opinions that I can compare to technical specifications and demos in order to form a better decision.

1) what should I be looking for in a new dimmer rack. we would prefer not to overspend on the small budgets, but maybe add more circuits and expand for the dream budget. We currently are on all stage-pin connections. but I believe we have a dmx module that ties into the rack with 1 connection on it.

2) is their a particular manufacturer that is generally recommended for reliability and support.

3) for the lighting board, should I be looking into the same manufacturer as the rack? does the overall system work better when the board and dimmer rack come from the same place.

4) an ex student who has pretty much managed the tech for years, is a dj for a living and is now going to college for theater tech mentioned that he has had a lot of problems with the ETC Element. Does anyone have further opinions on that particular board. He LOVED the ION when we rented one the other year but since it's pricier, it might not make it onto the Band-Aid or mid-range budgets.

5) as all the kids who really had a passion for theater tech have graduated, that pretty much just leaves me. I have learned a great deal in a short amount of time but am no expert. I need a board that is not to complicated to spot fix when small problems arise and some what intuitive to program if we rent moving lights or gel scrollers or color blasts, etc... manufacturer support would also be some what of a big deal.

I appreciate any advice that anyone can give on any matter.

Hey Anthony! Your situation sounds just like where I am today. I retired and moved to the mountains and got hooked into volunteering for our community theater. Next thing you know, I’m handed a chunk of money and asked to update our stage lighting system. I even have a similar setup and the same Express (she’s a workhorse, but time to upgrade). Would you take the time to update us on your project, especially any particularly good or bad revelations? Much appreciated and hope everything turned out great.

 

[SteveB]

Hey Anthony! Your situation sounds just like where I am today. I retired and moved to the mountains and got hooked into volunteering for our community theater. Next thing you know, I’m handed a chunk of money and asked to update our stage lighting system. I even have a similar setup and the same Express (she’s a workhorse, but time to upgrade). Would you take the time to update us on your project, especially any particularly good or bad revelations? Much appreciated and hope everything turned out great.

Note that Anthony’s post was back in 2015. Not sure he’s going to pick up on it.

 

[Massey28694]

@SteveB Thanks Steve. I was hopeful he might have notifications on and would be alerted to the post. Sure would like to hear the rest of the story!

Is there a way to send pvt messages?

 

[SteveB]

@SteveB Thanks Steve. I was hopeful he might have notifications on and would be alerted to the post. Sure would like to hear the rest of the story!

Is there a way to send pvt messages?

Click on the OP’s screen name and start a conversation.