I-Cue, PATCHING PAN AND TILT

nelhefnawy

New Member
Hi everyone
Long story short: we have 3 Rosco I-Cues at my school. It used to be patched into 3 channels for each one: one channel that turns the I-Cue on, one for the pan, one for the tilt. They stopped working, they all turn on but don’t move at all when i move the sliders for the channels that were patched for the pan and tilt. how do i patch the pan and tilt back into the two channels that used to move them. (it’s 9 channels total, 3 I-Cues, 1 channel
to turn on and other 2 to move for each). The board I am working with is ETC Express 48/96
 
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Can you post a picture of your patch?
channels 31, 34, and 37 TURN ON the I-Cues. I want 32 and 33 to be pan and tilt for 31. 35 and 36 to be pan and tilt for 34, and so on. I don’t know how to patch my pan and tilt, they turn on, don’t move. thank you!!
 

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It looks like you haven't given yourself enough space between fixtures. Your first i-cue should be address 1-3, the second 4-6, and the third 7-9
 
Your patch is a little messed up. I think your patch should probably look like:

Ch 31 @ 4
Ch 32 @ 515
Ch 33 @ 516

This one is fine, and I assume this is the only IQ that's working properly for you.

Ch 34 @ 19 (right now you have both the intensity AND pan on a single fader)
Ch 35 @ 517
Ch 36 @ 518

Ch 37 @ (whatever dimmer your third light is plugged into. Your pictures didn't show past Ch 35)
Ch 38 @ 519 (I'm just following your established pattern. Double check this is actually what YOU'RE doing)
Ch 39 @ 520

Again--in each of these channels, there should be only ONE address.
 
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Your patch is a little messed up. I think your patch should probably look like:

Ch 31 @ 4
Ch 32 @ 515
Ch 33 @ 516

This one is fine, and I assume this is the only IQ that's working properly for you.

Ch 34 @ 19 (right now you have both the intensity AND pan on a single fader)
Ch 35 @ 517
Ch 36 @ 518

Ch 37 @ (whatever dimmer your third light is plugged into. Your pictures didn't show past Ch 35)
Ch 38 @ 519 (I'm just following your established pattern. Double check this is actually what YOU'RE doing)
Ch 39 @ 520

Again--in each of these channels, there should be only ONE address.
i tried doing this to fix the patch, they still don’t move, even the one that looks like it’s patched right doesn’t move
 
OK so if NONE of them are moving, here's what you check next:

First, make sure that the power supply is getting power (that black box that the DMX cable from the second universe of the Express is running to). If it's not on (you should see a lit LED on it), then nothing downstream of that is going to move because the IQs won't be getting any power.

If the power IS on...

...Second, if it could very well be (in addition to your funky patch that needs to be fixed) that there is a bad connection in the cabling. Start at the Express to the power supply, to the three IQs and follow the cable run to check that all connections are seated properly.

If all THREE mirrors aren't working, my money is on 1) an unpowered power supply, and/or 2) faulty / badly seated DMX cable from Express to power supply, and/or faulty / badly seated 4 - pin cable between the power supply and your first IQ.
 
OK so if NONE of them are moving, here's what you check next:

First, make sure that the power supply is getting power (that black box that the DMX cable from the second universe of the Express is running to). If it's not on (you should see a lit LED on it), then nothing downstream of that is going to move because the IQs won't be getting any power.

If the power IS on...

...Second, if it could very well be (in addition to your funky patch that needs to be fixed) that there is a bad connection in the cabling. Start at the Express to the power supply, to the three IQs and follow the cable run to check that all connections are seated properly.

If all THREE mirrors aren't working, my money is on 1) an unpowered power supply, and/or 2) faulty / badly seated DMX cable from Express to power supply, and/or faulty / badly seated 4 - pin cable between the power supply and your first IQ.
Okay i’m sorry i’m really un experienced with IQs so if when your explaining explain it a little watered down so i can understand. The IQs were working a few months ago, i honestly think it’s the patch, i still don’t understand how patching 515 to channel 32 makes the pan of the mirror move like i don’t even know how that works. if i did i could reset the whole patch for them. either way, i have to make sure the black box that all the cables from the IQs are plugged into run all the way to the board?? (what is DMX and what do you mean by second universe and pin cable ). i’m sorry, thanks for the help!!
 
OK so if NONE of them are moving, here's what you check next:

First, make sure that the power supply is getting power (that black box that the DMX cable from the second universe of the Express is running to). If it's not on (you should see a lit LED on it), then nothing downstream of that is going to move because the IQs won't be getting any power.

If the power IS on...

...Second, if it could very well be (in addition to your funky patch that needs to be fixed) that there is a bad connection in the cabling. Start at the Express to the power supply, to the three IQs and follow the cable run to check that all connections are seated properly.

If all THREE mirrors aren't working, my money is on 1) an unpowered power supply, and/or 2) faulty / badly seated DMX cable from Express to power supply, and/or faulty / badly seated 4 - pin cable between the power supply and your first IQ.
is it possible you could do a easy quick like explanation on how I-Cues work? Considering patch and stuff, when I look at the fixture patch I sent (the photo is up there) i have no idea what i’m looking what except i can identify the first three are the I-Cues, like what is start channel, DMX512 what does that mean, what do the 2/1, 2/3 numbers mean, thank you for all the help! I’m a high school student and we have a new theater director and he’s no help, we’re doing sweeney todd ahaha
 
Okay i’m sorry i’m really un experienced with IQs so if when your explaining explain it a little watered down so i can understand. The IQs were working a few months ago, i honestly think it’s the patch, i still don’t understand how patching 515 to channel 32 makes the pan of the mirror move like i don’t even know how that works. if i did i could reset the whole patch for them. either way, i have to make sure the black box that all the cables from the IQs are plugged into run all the way to the board?? (what is DMX and what do you mean by second universe and pin cable ). i’m sorry, thanks for the help!!
All good my friend. I'll go out on a limb and say that everybody here on Control Booth has been where you are. OK, so let's go through some quick basics. DMX is the language that your lighting board "speaks" to tell things what to do. It does this in groups of 512 control channels called "universes" (so the first DMX output on the board will control channels 1-512 and the second DMX output will control the SECOND universe of channels 513-1024. But you can also express channel 513 as 2/1 because it's the SECOND universe, FIRST channel. So 1024 could also be called 2/512--channel 512 in the SECOND universe. )

Now, back when all we had were dimmers, and the only parameter we had to control was the intensity of a light, it was easy. When you patched circuit / dimmer 4 into channel 31, when you brought up that channel, you would bring up the intensity of the light that was plugged into that circuit / dimmer. But NOW, we can control a bunch of other parameters OTHER than intensity. Like, say, the pan of a mirror. That would take a control channel. Or the tilt of a mirror. That would take another control channel. (When you get into LED lights, you end up needing a BUNCH of control channels to individually control the intensity of, say, 7 different colours of LED emitters, plus strobe rate, and other stuff. Even more if it's a MOVING LED light. So sometimes you can have a single LED light needing a couple DOZEN control channels to control it. This would quickly overwhelm an Express board, so thankfully we're just dealing with IQ mirrors that have fewer parameters.)

IQs can actually be controlled with 2 channels (which is what it sounds like yours are set to) or 4 channels, where pan and tilt are given TWO channels each--one course and one fine for more control.

So when you patch:
Ch 31 @ 4
Ch 32 @ 515
Ch 33 @ 516
All you are doing is taking control channels that aren't sequential, and grouping them so that they can be used together. And it looks like your FIRST universe (DMX 1-512 remember?) are talking to your dimmers--the things that just control the intensity of the lights by controlling the power they get--and your SECOND universe is talking to your IQ mirrors (DMX 513-1024, or 2/1-2/512 if you prefer).

So....the second universe of DMX, in order to provide power to your IQs, needs to go to a power supply first, because those channels that are telling the mirror to move, need to be supported by power to MAKE the mirror move. That's why you need to make sure that this power supply hasn't been accidentally unplugged. Otherwise, the Express could be telling the mirror to move, but it won't have any power to do anything about it. Now you might have noticed that a DMX cable has 5 pins (it actually only uses 3 of those pins, but that's another discussion. But if you see 3 pin DMX cable, now you know why that's possible). The 5 pin DMX goes into the power supply, and the outputs are now FOUR pin, because now the cable has to transmit control AND power.

Personally, I think there's a problem with the power supply, like it's not plugged in. Hope the rest makes sense.
 
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is it possible you could do a easy quick like explanation on how I-Cues work? Considering patch and stuff, when I look at the fixture patch I sent (the photo is up there) i have no idea what i’m looking what except i can identify the first three are the I-Cues, like what is start channel, DMX512 what does that mean, what do the 2/1, 2/3 numbers mean, thank you for all the help! I’m a high school student and we have a new theater director and he’s no help, we’re doing sweeney todd ahaha
IQ mirrors, depending on you set them up, can be controlled by 2 or 4 control channels. In simple 8 bit resolution, it takes two control channels: one for pan, one for tilt. In 16 bit resolution, it takes four control channels: one for course pan, one for fine pan, one for course tilt, one for fine tilt. For an Express board, simplicity is your friend, so you are probable in 8 bit resolution so you only need the two controls. On the IQ unit itself, you set the FIRST DMX address that the unit needs. So the first IQ mirror should be set to 003. But because it's the third channel on the SECOND universe, it's patched as 515 (Because the second universe starts at 513, remember? Or you could express that as 2/3.) You don't need to set a second (ending) number on the IQ because it knows that in 8 bit mode, it will be using 515 AND 516.

Because the Googles is our friend, here's the manual for the digital version of the IQ. where you can actually see the DMX address. Holler if you have an older model that doesn't have that display.
 
IQ mirrors, depending on you set them up, can be controlled by 2 or 4 control channels. In simple 8 bit resolution, it takes two control channels: one for pan, one for tilt. In 16 bit resolution, it takes four control channels: one for course pan, one for fine pan, one for course tilt, one for fine tilt. For an Express board, simplicity is your friend, so you are probable in 8 bit resolution so you only need the two controls. On the IQ unit itself, you set the FIRST DMX address that the unit needs. So the first IQ mirror should be set to 003. But because it's the third channel on the SECOND universe, it's patched as 515 (Because the second universe starts at 513, remember? Or you could express that as 2/3.) You don't need to set a second (ending) number on the IQ because it knows that in 8 bit mode, it will be using 515 AND 516.

Because the Googles is our friend, here's the manual for the digital version of the IQ. where you can actually see the DMX address. Holler if you have an older model that doesn't have that display.
Okay that makes so much more sense! A couple questions
-how do i set the IQ to 003?
-if i make the patch look like this and so on for the IQs, and check the power supply, they SHOULD work right?
Ch 35 @ 517
Ch 36 @ 518
-also what is start channel in the fixture patch i sent? i says like 32, 38, 34, what are those??
 
IQ mirrors, depending on you set them up, can be controlled by 2 or 4 control channels. In simple 8 bit resolution, it takes two control channels: one for pan, one for tilt. In 16 bit resolution, it takes four control channels: one for course pan, one for fine pan, one for course tilt, one for fine tilt. For an Express board, simplicity is your friend, so you are probable in 8 bit resolution so you only need the two controls. On the IQ unit itself, you set the FIRST DMX address that the unit needs. So the first IQ mirror should be set to 003. But because it's the third channel on the SECOND universe, it's patched as 515 (Because the second universe starts at 513, remember? Or you could express that as 2/3.) You don't need to set a second (ending) number on the IQ because it knows that in 8 bit mode, it will be using 515 AND 516.

Because the Googles is our friend, here's the manual for the digital version of the IQ. where you can actually see the DMX address. Holler if you have an older model that doesn't have that display.
I will be in class at 1:15, can you be active then to help me out if anything? is there a quicker way to contact you maybe discord. the show is soon and this isn’t the only thing i’m worrying about i just want to get it fixed lol thank u!
 
-how do i set the IQ to 003?
IQ mirrors come in two styles, depending on the age of the unit. It will either have a digital display on the unit which will allow you to actually see the number of the address, or a series of small dials and switches that you have to turn or switch with a small flat screwdriver. Below is the link to the manufacturer page that has the manual for both versions. Read the one that's relevant for you (they're blissfully short).
https://ca.rosco.com/en/product/i-cue-intelligent-mirror

If you have the digital display version, you can just touch any button around the display and the address number will light up. That's the first DMX address for that mirror. Remember, that each mirror still uses TWO address numbers (one for pan, one for tilt), but the display only shows you the first of the two.

if i make the patch look like this and so on for the IQs, and check the power supply, they SHOULD work right?
Yup. I would also add that if you do this, and they still don't work, it still might be a cable issue either from the board to the power supply, or from the power supply to the first IQ. When troubleshooting, we try to hit the most probable points of failure before we hit the less probable. Could your power supply be dead? It's possible. But it's also way more likely that the power cord just wiggled out of the unit over time, or it accidentally got unplugged.

Check the power supply first, then test that you have control of your first IQ on channels 31 through 33. If that one works, then the other two will be fixed with the correct patch.

I will be in class at 1:15, can you be active then to help me out if anything?
I'll try to be online for you. I've got a thing at 2:30 eastern time that will take me out of play for a bit.
 
Quick correction to the patch. I didn't see the second picture you posted.
It looks like your IQs have been patched to 2/1, 2/3, and 2/5. So assuming you want to start at fader 31, and I'll assume that dimmer 4 and 19 (along with one more for the third light that I just can't see) are your dimmer addresses, your patch will look like this:
Ch 31 @ 4
Ch 32 @ 515 (2/3)
Ch 33 @ 516

This one is fine, and I assume this is the only IQ that's working properly for you.

Ch 34 @ 19 (right now you have both the intensity AND pan on a single fader)
Ch 35 @ 517 (2/5
Ch 36 @ 518

Ch 37 @ 513 (2/1)
Ch 38 @ 514
Ch 39 @ 520
 
The other thing to check on the express(if all 3 I-Cues remain not working after the steps listed above) is that port 2 on the express is set to 513. I don't remember exactly where, but somewhere in Setup you can change the start address of each port.
 
Quick correction to the patch. I didn't see the second picture you posted.
It looks like your IQs have been patched to 2/1, 2/3, and 2/5. So assuming you want to start at fader 31, and I'll assume that dimmer 4 and 19 (along with one more for the third light that I just can't see) are your dimmer addresses, your patch will look like this:
Ch 31 @ 4
Ch 32 @ 515 (2/3)
Ch 33 @ 516

This one is fine, and I assume this is the only IQ that's working properly for you.

Ch 34 @ 19 (right now you have both the intensity AND pan on a single fader)
Ch 35 @ 517 (2/5
Ch 36 @ 518

Ch 37 @ 513 (2/1)
Ch 38 @ 514
Ch 39 @ 520
how do i had (2/1) and so on to the patch? i fixed the patch to
how you said earlier and they still don’t work but without the (2/1), to check the power supply to make sure the power is running do i check from the board end or the I-Cue end or both
 

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