I know its a bad idea, but...

jtf107

Member
So we have a show coming up at our school that we try to make as fun as possible, being the the audience is almost all students. The adults that usually over see our work don't really care what we do for this production (lighting, sound, projection, rigging). So I was approached by the student director today and asked if we could have people rappel in. I was kind of jumping with joy (because I have ALWAYS wanted to fly someone), but common sense said, "That would be Dangerous or Expensive". I ended up saying, "Ill see what I can do."

So my question is how (un)safe is it to have people rappel from a pipe. I have all of the proper harnesses, ropes, and equipment for ascending and descending, I just wanted to know how others felt about actually connecting it to a pipe.
 
What are some of the main concerns you have. Im already aware of the varying load.

The fact that no matter how safely you think you're doing it IF something goes wrong your school is in a heap of trouble
 
This will not be conducted without a professional. Now, I'm more so interested in the particulars of why its bad.
 
Are you paying a professional who rigs people to repel to come in?
 
Are you paying a professional who rigs people to repel to come in?

Oh geez, I hope that isn't the case! There have been a least a handful of deaths and/or serious injuries in recent years during church Christmas pageants in which an "expert" repeller/climber came in to fly angels over the stage.
 
It can be nearly completely safe. It can get people killed. The difference between those two situations is a properly-credentialed professional to evaluate the situation, check/provide the equipment, test it out, train the performers, and be present for all performances.

My experience: It's entirely possible to safely ascend & rappel off certain parts of our stage's overhead structure. I know this because I've watched trained, professional arborists (attached ag college...) do it to hang banners & such. Nevertheless, I'd never consider doing it myself without their supervision (or even with...), and it'd never make it past me into a show (if it were my decision :neutral:). I've always found back-lit silhouettes cutouts and tight blocking (etc) can get the job done without endangering life and limb.
 
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You can rapel down a rock face. You can rapel down a wall. All of these things can be fun to do. However, all of these things are done with a certain amount of known risk. Rock climbing is a vary dangerous sport. Every year in the mountains near my house many climbers lose their lives. Just last year one of my friends son's was driven to the hospital with a split head due to a climbing mistake.

In order to mitigate the risk in an industrial environment there are many safety devices put into place that are not there in rock climbing. The gear is stronger. The harnesses are more complex. The ropes are stronger. The safety factor is much higher. Finally, the operator/user goes through hundreds of hours of training in order to do this. Rock climbers take risk to do what they do, industrial rope technicians do everything in their power to mitigate risk.

Don't do this.
 
Nothing good has ever come from the term "I know it's a bad idea but" all you're trying to do here is have us come up with an excuse for you to go against better judgement. Stick with your first instinct and don't do it.
 
To echo what everyone has said - This is a REALLY, REALLY, bad idea. On so many levels. Professional stunt men get hurt doing repel gags. I don't have the three or four hours it would take to list all the reasons not to do this. In real life, people don't survive dumb and dumber stunts.
 
The problem with using repelling gear and techniques for that (outside of liability and lack of adult supervision) is you're trying to use repelling gear and techniques but change them to fit the performance (eg angels hooked up to pulleys, inadequate anchor points). To start with you're going to have an out of weight situation with the pipe and it will run through the rope lock. Also people tend to forget/skip things in the heat of performance (not checking connections, ect)-- no one cares if it takes an extra 30 sec to check something on a rock wall but you just missed the cue in theatre.
 
I agree with what everyone else has said. However, I also believe it cannot possibly be said enough; do NOT do this. It is not safe, you do not have the proper training or equipment, and it is evident that no one in your current situation has a complete understanding of the logistics and the many inherent risks involved.

~Dave
 
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As everyone has said this is a bad idea. People could get seriously injured and then you're liable and lawsuits and death can ensue. There are tons of reasons its a bad idea. You say it won't be without a professional, but as Edrick pointed out, are you talking about a professional theatrical rigger or someone who rock climbs? Even simple logistics here, if they are repelling from a batten, where are these people before coming in? up in the fly loft hanging amongst lights and other battens and cables dangling? and Sure you can repel off of things.... but you want the line attached to a solid object, not a batten that can swing. multiple people exerting force on it in multiple directions means it will swing all over the place and that's bad. If you want more solid reasons not to do it look through the threads that got posted. Too many people have died trying stupid stuff like this.
 
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I echo exactly what everyone else has said, DO NOT DO THIS! The last time we did this in our space, we brought in an instructor who has several thousand hours of repelling experience (Military trainer), We had the actors put in 200+ hours of repelling time. We attached the repel rope to a solid point (NOT A BATTEN). Used the correct harnesses, used the correct technique. In high school you generally don't have access to 10% of what I just listed. If you can't do 100% of what I listed as well as be 100% capable of canceling the effect, should something not feel/look or seem right. Then DO NOT DO THIS.

I know it seems like a fun thing to do. Its certainly enjoyable to do, but it requires experience, training, and above all the knowledge of how to handle emergencies. This is not apporpriete for a high school production. Period. If you think it's a "Bad Idea, But..." then your answer is always NO.
 

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