I want to be a better welder

curtis73

Well-Known Member
I can weld. I've welded plenty, but I never had any training and my welds are... um... dubiously functional.

I want to take a welding course. Certification is optional, but having extra letters beside my name can't hurt on a resume. The point of this learning is to be able to fabricate flys, flats, and platforms with more versatility/safety than just using wood. I have discovered AWS certifications, but wondered if there are any specific certifying bodies for theatrical applications. I don't want to get certified in something that works for architectural construction and engineering but doesn't translate to theater things, make sense? Or is it just a universal knowledge set that applies to most everything?
 
I can weld. I've welded plenty, but I never had any training and my welds are... um... dubiously functional.

I want to take a welding course. Certification is optional, but having extra letters beside my name can't hurt on a resume. The point of this learning is to be able to fabricate flys, flats, and platforms with more versatility/safety than just using wood. I have discovered AWS certifications, but wondered if there are any specific certifying bodies for theatrical applications. I don't want to get certified in something that works for architectural construction and engineering but doesn't translate to theater things, make sense? Or is it just a universal knowledge set that applies to most everything?
Amazon Web Services? "virtual welding of applications to data..."
 
I’ve never encountered a regional theatre that wanted the fabricators to have a welding certification, for better or worse.

I know of some commercial shops that deal in themed entertainment and corporate entertainment that require it. They look at it more of a liability due to their clientele.

In general industry more and more welding is being done by robots.

The manufacturers I know of in the industry employ a lot of ex Navy and ex Air Force, in my opinion, the best trained fabricators in our nation.

Are you looking to jump out of entertainment?
 
Are you looking to jump out of entertainment?
Nope. Looking to make my tours out of something other than wood which breaks after three shows of ham-fisted volunteer techies. I have all kinds of ideas for square-tube aluminum flats with jigged and pre-drilled holes to make assembly a breeze, and also make them far lighter to fly/move/etc. Skin the frames with luan, use and abuse until the luan gets damaged and then replace it.

Show up, draw-hasp or bolt them together, shackles on the pick points, throw a pig on an arbor, done. What I'm currently doing is screwing/bolting 1x3 wood framed flats together, which are not only heavy, but not very resilient to flexing, transport, abuse, etc.

We're a community theater that emulates pro/LORT experiences. I'm also a Tech Department of exactly one. So when I have 2 months to build a tour for a 40' x 28' proscenium theater, it's so much nicer to have pre-fab things that actually last and take the abuse. Also nice to have things that when a volunteer rail crew bounces them off the deck, I don't have to inspect the integrity of every stick of lumber in that fly. What that also means is that I have shoestring budgets by comparison. I have already procured several donations of the aluminum and steel I want, and it's pretty easy to get a grant for something that can be considered permanent infrastructure. No one will give me a grant for something disposable like lumber. I could get a grant to pay someone to custom make what I want, but that just gets me stock flats. I will need the ability to add on to make non-rectangular shapes.
 
Last edited:
Case in point....

This tree is 2" insulation foam glued/screwed to luan with a 2x3 frame on the back. I had to rig it in three separate pieces - trunk, SL branch, and SR branch because there was no way to assemble it on the deck and get it vertical without breaking it. If it accidentally hits the deck or the pipe flies in too far, it's broken. Ask me how I know. That exact thing happened on opening night causing me to spend three hours in a Genie lift patching it up. If I instead took a few hours and made a proper structural aluminum frame for it with the 200+ feet of lightweight aluminum I-beam I have from a donation, I wouldn't be as stressed out about it breaking.
 

Attachments

  • 20220201_145452.jpg
    20220201_145452.jpg
    284.8 KB · Views: 26
Case in point....

This tree is 2" insulation foam glued/screwed to luan with a 2x3 frame on the back. I had to rig it in three separate pieces - trunk, SL branch, and SR branch because there was no way to assemble it on the deck and get it vertical without breaking it. If it accidentally hits the deck or the pipe flies in too far, it's broken. Ask me how I know. That exact thing happened on opening night causing me to spend three hours in a Genie lift patching it up. If I instead took a few hours and made a proper structural aluminum frame for it with the 200+ feet of lightweight aluminum I-beam I have from a donation, I wouldn't be as stressed out about it breaking.
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure welding aluminum is it's own animal with different torches. I've also been considering adding welding back into my repertoire but currently lack space for equipment, etc. We'll see.
 
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure welding aluminum is it's own animal with different torches. I've also been considering adding welding back into my repertoire but currently lack space for equipment, etc. We'll see.
You can MIG aluminum with the right setup. TIG is better, but it can be done in MIG.
 
Case in point....

This tree is 2" insulation foam glued/screwed to luan with a 2x3 frame on the back. I had to rig it in three separate pieces - trunk, SL branch, and SR branch because there was no way to assemble it on the deck and get it vertical without breaking it. If it accidentally hits the deck or the pipe flies in too far, it's broken. Ask me how I know. That exact thing happened on opening night causing me to spend three hours in a Genie lift patching it up. If I instead took a few hours and made a proper structural aluminum frame for it with the 200+ feet of lightweight aluminum I-beam I have from a donation, I wouldn't be as stressed out about it breaking.

I spent a few years as the welding shop "guy" for a few companies. http://vansandtdesigns.com/blog/portfolio_category/welding/ Ran the metal shop in my college too for the last few years there as well. So... as far as "theatre welding" goes I can give you some pointers.

Certifications don't really matter. Certifications focus on welding structual steel. We're talking big thick beams that need special prep, multiple welding passes, grinding, more passes, etc. Or your welding fluid pipeing together that has to be sealed perfectly. None of these skills will help you. Hit up your local community college and see if they have a welding course aimed at fabricators. Focus on learning MIG welding. If they also offer TIG, great, but TIG welding is pretty slow for what we do. You want to focus on mild steel tube construction.

The second part to that though that no class will teach you is how to actually do the welding. Many people who weld say that they can do it because they can run a bead that looks semi decent. But... the biggest thing in welding is actually prep. How you cut your pieces, clean, grind, drill, and layout everything is a way bigger deal then how you actually stick them together. Every shop I've worked in the first thing I do is build a 24'x8' wooden table to build off of. Then I collect all the ply scraps from the shop and build jig blocks. Then after that I can actually start building. Nothing gets built without being put into a jig. Take a look at my site above, a lot of my shows there have stuff jigged out. After that, learning to run a good bead just takes time. You have to learn your machine, the settings you need to match your movement, and how much heat you need to pernitrate the steel you are using. A big pile of scrap steel will get you there for that. After that its just process.
 
Thank you, footer. I'm pretty fair with MIG on mild steel. I don't have much experience with thinner gauge steel so I tend to blow holes in it :)

I have the spool if I want to get a jug of the right shield gas and MIG aluminum, I've just never done it. No point in spending $75 on gas until I know the basics. Current arsenal includes a 240v MIG (which can scratch TIG, but I have no interest in that), a 120v MIG, an old Lincoln stick welder, and a plasma cutter. Most of my self-taught experience has been with heavier gauge steel and MIG or stick. Things like fabbing up accessory brackets for alternators, patching rusty frames, etc.

I just figure a real education in the subject would be very beneficial.
 
If you find your skills lacking, it never hurts to invest in knowledge.

Just to clear things up about welding certifications: there is no general "welding certification". Even a diploma from a welding school like I have isn't considered a certification. Certifications are usually issued by an employer with the help of a engineering firm, school, or certification company. Your certification also limits what you're certified in. Each certification is specifically for a process (MIG, TIG, etc.), for a material (1/4" steel, 1/8" aluminum, etc.), and for a position (flat, horizontal, vertical, or overhead). For example, you can be certified to weld 16ga aluminum with TIG in the overhead position. That certification allows you to weld in your company under those limitations, usually for a specific product that requires it. Sometimes a single test will certify you in multiple positions and material thicknesses.

It's main purpose IMO is allow the company to have a standard of welding quality, based on engineering and science, that anyone, despite their education, can meet. Whether you've learned from your grandpa in your backyard as a teenager or have a degree in metallurgy, if you can pass the test, you are cleared to weld. One of the easiest self-tests you can do is to fillet weld two pieces of 1/4" steel, at least 6" long, together in a T, let the weld cool naturally, and then break it on a vise with a hammer. If the weld breaks anywhere other than straight down the middle of the weld, then the weld isn't as strong as it could be.

IMO, unless you have multiple welders and you work for a commercial company that would require certification for liability purposes, if you can show competency through experience and education, you should have no problem running short-circuit MIG on 16ga or 18ga steel tube to make flats. And, as always, practice makes perfect.

Aluminium needs a gas cloud (argon, usually) to stop it immediately oxidising, which steel doesn't. So yes, you need a torch designed for welding aluminium.

With steel, you either need a gas (usually CO2, or Argon, or a mix) or a flux to prevent oxidation. Same with aluminum, but usually mostly Argon (or in TIG sometimes, Helium).

But... the biggest thing in welding is actually prep. How you cut your pieces, clean, grind, drill, and layout everything is a way bigger deal then how you actually stick them together.

IMO, 90% of welding is prep, 10% is the actual welding process (or less even). Clean your steel, grind off rust and mill scale, make a nice (reusable) jig, and make sure everything is square.

I have all kinds of ideas for square-tube aluminum flats with jigged and pre-drilled holes to make assembly a breeze, and also make them far lighter to fly/move/etc. Skin the frames with luan, use and abuse until the luan gets damaged and then replace it.
I have already procured several donations of the aluminum and steel I want, and it's pretty easy to get a grant for something that can be considered permanent infrastructure. No one will give me a grant for something disposable like lumber. I could get a grant to pay someone to custom make what I want, but that just gets me stock flats. I will need the ability to add on to make non-rectangular shapes.

Building stock scenery should be viewed as an investment. Every dollar you invest in a nice, reusable stock scenic item can pay dividends in future productions. It seems you understand that.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back