# In need of a Hazer

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
I am currently looking for a hazer (in the sub-1000 dollar range) to put in to the long-term improvements proposal that I'm working on right now for an on-campus venue. The only trick is that there's a particulate detector, that cannot be turned off, above the stage (10' ceiling). We set the alarm off with a Le Maitre G150 (we own two) yesterday afternoon when testing, but we did not set it off when the room was pretty much filled with haze from a Le Maitre Neutron hazer (which the visiting LD brought in), but most of the haze stayed below the detector (lucky for us). We now know that the G150s are useless in the venue, even though they were a part of the original install! I'm looking at the Le Maitre Radiance hazer, and I want to know what experiences people have had with the Radiance and particulate detection fire alarm systems. If I run it at low output, just enough to keep the beams from my scanners visible, will it set off the system?

The rest of the upgrade package includes 4 Vision Scan 250s, 20 Chauvet LEDsplash 2s, an NSI 7500 series board (either 24 or 32) to complement the MLC16D that's already there, and an opto-iso and cabling for the upgrade. Also, two new pieces of uni-strut to hang the new lights on.

#### sound_nerd

##### Active Member
We've been using the Radiance on tour for months now, and it's fantastic. I'm doing a club tour, so dealing with all sorts of ceiling heights and fire detection systems. So far we have had zero issues, and I run it a bit hard. Approx. about 40% output all night in an 800 capacity venue.
We also run a 1700w fogger on the same show, just for bursts, and we've had no issues with that either. (it's a Chauvet Hurricane 1700)

Either we've had really good luck with venues, or the fluid type used in the Radiance is easy on fire detection systems.

#### BillESC

##### Well-Known Member
The Radiance is the new improved replacement for the Neutron. It's haze will act the same. As long as you don't over do it you should be fine.

#### sound_nerd

##### Active Member
Yes, I forgot to mention but Bill got it, the Radiance uses the same fluid as the Neutron. Only real difference is that the Neutron is an awful piece of machinery, and the Radiance has better output and breaks far less.

#### Daveslights

##### Member
I have a Radiance, it's fantastic. I'm totally in love with it! I use it in lots of small clubs and outdoor stages too.

I've only had one fire alarm issue, and it was a bar/restaurant kind of deal. Never had a problem in a club.

You might have to turn it off occasionally in smaller rooms though.

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
No ability to turn the alarm off. I really want to get the funds for a DF-50, because I know that those are really good with particulate alarms, but we might not have the cash.

#### len

##### Well-Known Member
Radiance = excellent for the .

Radiance tour package = excellent if you plan on touring (although a little tippy). But still excellent.

Neutron not so much. Glad it's gone.

#### sound_nerd

##### Active Member
You'll find that the oil based fluid in the DF50 will gunk up everything with a nice thin film. The output is nice though, and that style of hazer (who's name is on the tip of my tongue) has a very even distribution and fills a room nicely.
Should also note they're fairly loud, and while not a problem for concerts, running during a theatre show might sound like a two stroke Honda.

#### Grog12

##### CBMod
CB Mods
Addressing soundlights real problem which is the particulate dector:

Sir I hate to tell you that you're S.O.L. Here's the deal you'll be hit or miss with whatever you by. If you brought a Neutron back in today you might set it off. It depends on the air patterns in the room, how many people are there...how long you run it ect. That's a lot of variables. Every time you set off the fire alarms cost your department money...alot of it.

Have your Department TD talk to the fire department and other campus officials about why you actually want the dector shut down, and for how long every night. The university I work at has to shut them off every time we want to use Haze.

#### Charc

##### Well-Known Member
What about piping clean air around the detector?

#### Grog12

##### CBMod
CB Mods
What about piping clean air around the detector?
Most particle detectors work on a reflected laser so that wouldn't quite work.

#### rosebudld

##### Member
I use a Radiance in a 1500 seat venue and don't have too much trouble with our particle detectors but it helps alot that I use a blower to get the haze out into the auditorium on air currents etc. I've had a few problems if the haze creeps into the backstage areas where the detectors are but not too many now that I've fine tuned.. the Radiance uses a water/alcohol based haze I believe..

#### Charc

##### Well-Known Member
Most particle detectors work on a reflected laser so that wouldn't quite work.
Hmm? As in if you displaced all the air around the detector with clean air forced through like a dryer hose, from a window?

#### Grog12

##### CBMod
CB Mods
Hmm? As in if you displaced all the air around the detector with clean air forced through like a dryer hose, from a window?
Don't quite get your question.....think of it like all those cheesy movies where if you walk through the laser it sets off an alarm....The laser eyes shoots the laser at a mirror and it reflects back into a sensor...if the sensor doesn't see the laser the alarm goes whoowhoo (its late I should sleep)

#### Charc

##### Well-Known Member
Don't quite get your question.....think of it like all those cheesy movies where if you walk through the laser it sets off an alarm....The laser eyes shoots the laser at a mirror and it reflects back into a sensor...if the sensor doesn't see the laser the alarm goes whoowhoo (its late I should sleep)
So my question was, because Soundlight can't remove/replace the detector, would it be possible to displace the air with the particulate (haze) in it, with other air, without particulate (say air from outside). This could be accomplished with a drier hose rum from the window, up a wall. and then stuck next to the detector. With a fan inside the hose, one would expect a considerable amount of air to flow, forcing any air with haze away from the detector...?

#### Grog12

##### CBMod
CB Mods
So my question was, because Soundlight can't remove/replace the detector, would it be possible to displace the air with the particulate (haze) in it, with other air, without particulate (say air from outside). This could be accomplished with a drier hose rum from the window, up a wall. and then stuck next to the detector. With a fan inside the hose, one would expect a considerable amount of air to flow, forcing any air with haze away from the detector...?
No. Partical detectors are two pieces unlike normal smoke detectors. Usually placed across the room from each other

#### Thomas

##### Member
uhh I hate to spoil the pariculate smoke detector alarm party, but if you have two foggers that work 100% without giving you trouble why don't you just put desk fans in front of them?

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
The fog gets around the room quickly, there's good circulation. There is only a 10' ceiling, so the fog gets there fast because it is hot and rises. The current foggers will not work. The fog also has a bad smell and many bands would probably not let us use it.

#### Thomas

##### Member
The fog also has a bad smell and many bands would probably not let us use it.
scent the fog, check with your local supplier. Who CARES what the band says?

#### soundlight

##### Well-Known Member
scent the fog, check with your local supplier. Who CARES what the band says?
I do. It's a small venue too, so I'll also be smelling it. And scented fog smells worse than regular fog, because it's got the smell of the burned fog fluid plus the smell of burned whatever-scent-you-use.

I'm thinking that I'm gonna go for a used DF50, because it's a heaterless machine with some of the smallest haze particles produced by any of the options.