Is a Windows based console really a good thing?

We're using a Jands Vista on the show I'm currently working on, and I happened to notice that it is based on none other than Linux! RedHat to be exact. I think I have a new favorite console.
 
to me it is still curious as to why we base ourselves on Windows. Enough Said.

it was not until the ipod and 0SX came out that apple really made somethi ng of itself. Basically, the period that Steve Jobs left apple nearly ran the company into the ground. OS9 and OS8 compared to windows 95/98 was not even a battle. On top of that, system 7 was not even a competitor, even to windows 3.1. Windows simply blew it away. Also, apple hardware was pretty crappy at the time. Apple had the home market with the apple IIe but after that they simply did not innovate the way that the rest of the industry did (Yes the lisa was nice, but 10 grand for a PC is a bit overkill). Apple lost the market way back when, and has never fully recovered in numbers that they once had. Its only been in the last 5 years that apple has been a real player, and they can thank most of that from the ipod.

Now the real question is why aren't we all using os2 warp or solaris?? (also whoever gets that without looking it up gets 3 geek points)
 
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Its only been in the last 5 years that apple has been a real player, and they can thank most of that from the ipod.

Although I agree at before OSX, Apple didn't really have much to say for itself, I can't help but disagree with the statement that Apple really only has the iPod to thank for its success. Yes, the iPod has been a tremendous source of income and publicity for the company, but I don't see how you can can say that OSX hasn't been a breakthrough in terms of OS and hasn't brought the company huge success. Lets not forget that OSX was out for a good two years I believe before XP came out, and even then was superior. I can't make any claims about Vista having not used it. However, as a MacBook Pro user with Parallels running XP, I can honestly say hands down I would rather be running OSX, specifically any off-line editor or pre-vis software on a Mac. Vari-lite specked a Apple for their Virtuoso line which has since gone to PRG, as did High End in the beginning with the DL 1. There were obvious reasons behind that.
 
Although I agree at before OSX, Apple didn't really have much to say for itself, I can't help but disagree with the statement that Apple really only has the iPod to thank for its success. Yes, the iPod has been a tremendous source of income and publicity for the company, but I don't see how you can can say that OSX hasn't been a breakthrough in terms of OS and hasn't brought the company huge success. Lets not forget that OSX was out for a good two years I believe before XP came out, and even then was superior. I can't make any claims about Vista having not used it. However, as a MacBook Pro user with Parallels running XP, I can honestly say hands down I would rather be running OSX, specifically any off-line editor or pre-vis software on a Mac. Vari-lite specked a Apple for their Virtuoso line which has since gone to PRG, as did High End in the beginning with the DL 1. There were obvious reasons behind that.

Its the iPod that has introduced the majority of current apple users to mac. They look at the iPod and how easy it works and want their entire computer to work that way. iPod sales pre iTunes for windows was very small. I have a 3rd gen iPod that originally shipped with musicmatch. It was the most annoying experience of my life. After itunes for windows came out iPod sales jumped a huge amount. Apples best selling piece of hardware (at least pre-2 days ago), the iPod is primarly used on windows computers. Its the iPod that has led to a larger mac acceptance. Also, it took apple 5 years to catch up to microsoft with OSX. Durring that time microsoft took hold of the market. Also, OSX was released march of 2001, and XP came out October of 2001. Windows 2000 which XP was built on was out way before OSX.

I am not trying to say that OSX is a great product and has help boost sales, but it was the ipod that help take people to OSX. Also the fact that people are now buying laptops in place of desktops is also helping apple due to the quality of their laptops. On top of that the ability to run windows on an apple product is a huge deal that has really helped boost sales. The next laptop I buy (i have a d600 now that has been going strong for several years) will be a mac most likely, and I will run bootcamp on it without question.

I will be interested to see how the iPhone affects apple computer sales. As far as high end speking apple gear, that goes without question. Apple computers are used by most editors simply because of final cut pro.
 
it was not until the ipod and 0SX came out that apple really made somethi ng of itself. Basically, the period that Steve Jobs left apple nearly ran the company into the ground. OS9 and OS8 compared to windows 95/98 was not even a battle. On top of that, system 7 was not even a competitor, even to windows 3.1. Windows simply blew it away. Also, apple hardware was pretty crappy at the time. Apple had the home market with the apple IIe but after that they simply did not innovate the way that the rest of the industry did (Yes the lisa was nice, but 10 grand for a PC is a bit overkill). Apple lost the market way back when, and has never fully recovered in numbers that they once had. Its only been in the last 5 years that apple has been a real player, and they can thank most of that from the ipod.
Now the real question is why aren't we all using os2 warp or solaris?? (also whoever gets that without looking it up gets 3 geek points)

Ahh... os2 warp... that was going to be so cool... still waiting.

Ah the MAC vs PC war again... I would love to have an os for my PC that is as cool as OSX. However I refuse to join the proprietary mac only hardware world. I bought a new computer in 1989... since then I have upgraded and upgraded, bought a new part here and there. I have long ago replaced every part of that system but I've never spent more than a couple hundred dollars at any time, gradually updating, using the best parts available from dozens of different manufacturers. Try doing that with an Apple... oh yeah you can't you have to throw it away and give them another two grand. The day Apple gives up control of it's hardware is the day I convert. I refuse to buy a product that I can't do all the repairs myself, can't get parts from multiple manufacturers in a competitive market, and eventually reach the point that you can't upgrade you have to just throw it away. Until then I'm not playing their hardware big brother game. (2 geek points for getting that reference).

Oh yeah and one other little note for the more general anti-Microsoft folks... back in those years when Apple was really screwed up... Microsoft purchased a huge portion of Apple to save it from bankruptcy. I believe they are still one of the largest owners of Apple stock... so when you throw away your old Apple to "Upgrade" to a new one, Microsoft makes money.

Me? I'm going to join the real rebels and go Linux one of these days.
 
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-I am as well interested to see what the iPhone does to Apple as a company. I think that the issues with it being first generation at all are great. Apple needs to open it up to other software developers, they need to increase the capacity of the hard drive, add blue tooth, and for god sake get off of Cingular! But, I would love to purchase one in a year or two when it gets through a generation or two and is offered by other carries, such as Verizon.
 
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-I am as well interested to see what the iPhone does to Apple as a company. I think that the issues with it being first generation at all are great. Apple needs to open it up to other software developers, they need to increase the capacity of the hard drive, add blue tooth, and for god sake get off of Cingular! But, I would love to purchase one in a year or two when it gets through a generation or two and is offered by other carries, such as Verizon.

Well, it has bluetooth already. They do need to either fix the edge network or get it on another carrier, however I think they do need to stay with a GSM provider, so verizon and sprint are off of that list. If they get the edge network to move faster, it will improve the service greatly. Also, there is no way AT&T will let the iPhone go. They (AT&T) are paying a ton of money to apple for the iphone, when most phone manufactuers pay AT&T to carry their phone. They are currently in a 5 year contract with AT&T. I would love to get one when it can truly replace my PDA, iPod, and phone. It needs to be at least 20gb for that to happen. They would be a godsend for anyone who lives on the road. Also, I want to run tom tom on it and have built in GPS.
 
The simple reason for Apple's success and what will be their downfall (if they dont change) is the fact that they control the whole package: hardware, software, licenceing, and probably soon some people's brains. Because they control every aspect of their products, they can make everything work well together and streamline things for the customer, however this, as mentioned, comes at the price of non-upgradeablity and being locked into their stuff so you just have to keep forking $ over too them.

The iPhone will be interesting in itself because of the partnership with AT&T. I think how this deal turns out will largely dictate the direction Apple takes in the future. If it works out, I expect Apple to slowly tip toe its way into more partnerships because they'll be plowed over by the rest of the market if they dont get out there and play nice sooner or later. If AT&T messes things up somehow, I expect to see Apple starting to look more like Google where they go and set up their own services to support their other services. The difference with google is (for now) they are playing nice with other's especially in the areas of interopability, and they do not directly charge customers for their services.

Anyways, it's all interesing stuff.

I have a Vista disc and I've played around with it, there's some stuff I love, and there's other stuff that's just annoying and that I thought would be fixed by now. My next machine will probably be a Vista / Linux dual boot.
 
I have a Vista disc and I've played around with it, there's some stuff I love, and there's other stuff that's just annoying and that I thought would be fixed by now. My next machine will probably be a Vista / Linux dual boot.

With the liscensing thing, apples aproach is "are stuff works, period". Apple does support a large variety of 3rd party software, so they are used to that game.

My only gripe with vista is how it plays with itunes ironicly. Currently, iTunes works somewhat, but quicktime has HUGE issues with it. Vista has some great things, and aero is pretty sweet.
 
I-phone, Maximum PC did a really cool introspective on it a couple of months ago. I was amazed at the limitations. The AT&T/ Cingular networks speed of d/l's is atrocious. < Notice that AT&T "reclaimed" Cingular right before the Iphone Launch?>
The lack of open development for software for the Iphone is going to kill it. Apple says it has to have all these restrictions to keep it safe and secure, I say, Monopoly baby! $600.00 Iphones? People are going to be laughing about that that same way we laugh about $250.00 Sony walkmans.

Linux, I followed instructions in a recent edition of Maximum PC < detecting a trend here?> I installed Ubuntu, in under 1.5 hrs. I had a working, fast, network enabled, OS on my machine, configured for my use without annoying popups everytwo seconds in under 2 hrs. Now don't get me wrong, I HATE the command line structure necessary for installing almost anything, but that's because I spent my time in the trenches I learned Basic, advanced Basic, Tandy Basic, Dos 1.2-7.1, I want to click on an installsheild auto executible and watch my software install itself for me. Some things are really made a lot easier by the Installation of Beryl, which makes Ubuntu look/behave a lot like a Vista machine. I think if I could get over the command line thing I might actually use Linux more often, Hell, Open Office is almost completely seamless with MS Ofice. The Ubuntu install comes with the equivalants of MS Office, Photoshop, Media Player, Explorer, Outlook, yadda,yadda,yadda, and it's ... Free!


As For PC/Mac, They both have their place, I prefer PC's, I can fix them if they break. About 100Million American highschool kids can fix them if I can't. Mac's, I don't know, I thnk you wave a hundred dollar bill over the mobo, and pray to the spirit of Steve Jobs that something start working.
Here, read this, http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_mac_vs_pc.html
 
Van, here's my valued (in my own mind) opinion.

PCs are straight, Macs are gay, I am bi-computeral, and Linuxs are transgendered. An OS trapped in a Personal Computer's body.

Back to the OP's original question:
Using a home PC to run lights is begging for trouble. Unless, 1) a minimal install of XP is done, first wiping the drive, 2) it is never connected to the internet or any other non-lighting network [thinking ETCnet, MA-net, Hog3-net, et al], and 3) only the Lighting System Software is installed. Even then I'm against it as you never know when a kid with Doom on his thumb drive will do something when you're not watching.

Windows Embedded XP is perfectly acceptable, as was/is Embedded DOS, and I don't know if there's such a thing as Embedded Linux, but I would be okay with that too. Does any "real" Lighting Console use Linux/Unix? Would they tell us if they did? Why did grandMA choose to use VX Works? Stability, even though it took them over 5 years to enable the USB ports for storage.

All PLCs used for mission-critical life-safety systems are "locked-down" and don't allow games or the WWW or any software other than their own. I can't think right now of the OS Allen-Bradley uses, but it's a ladder logic program, specifically designed for process control, factory automation, and fire supression systems, and the like, Logix? Used to be...? Would you trust your life to your HomePC running XP-Professional OR your MacPro running OS 10.4.10? How about the balls of fire that shoot out of Treasure Island and the Mirage Volcano every 15 minutes, weather permitting?

I didn't think so.

YMMV.
 
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So Derek you just cathcin up on a lot of old threads today?


And btw for anyone who wants my opinion on Windows based consoles see the punching bag....
 
Youz gotta problem wit dat?
 
Only in that it makes me giggle...and want to pinch your cheeks...but that may be because I'm sitting in a tech that I don't care about and am trying not to be angry about it.
 
Van, here's my valued (in my own mind) opinion.

PCs are straight, Macs are gay, I am bi-computeral, and Linuxs are transgendered. An OS trapped in a Personal Computer's body.

Back to the OP's original question:
Using a home PC to run lights is begging for trouble. Unless, 1) a minimal install of XP is done, first wiping the drive, 2) it is never connected to the internet or any other non-lighting network [thinking ETCnet, MA-net, Hog3-net, et al], and 3) only the Lighting System Software is installed. Even then I'm against it as you never know when a kid with Doom on his thumb drive will do something when you're not watching.

Windows Embedded XP is perfectly acceptable, as was/is Embedded DOS, and I don't know if there's such a thing as Embedded Linux, but I would be okay with that too. Does any "real" Lighting Console use Linux/Unix? Would they tell us if they did? Why did grandMA choose to use VX Works? Stability, even though it took them over 5 years to enable the USB ports for storage.

All PLCs used for mission-critical life-safety systems are "locked-down" and don't allow games or the WWW or any software other than their own. I can't think right now of the OS Allen-Bradley uses, but it's a ladder logic program, specifically designed for process control, factory automation, and fire supression systems, and the like, Logix? Used to be...? Would you trust your life to your HomePC running XP-Professional OR your MacPro running OS 10.4.10? How about the balls of fire that shoot out of Treasure Island and the Mirage Volcano every 15 minutes, weather permitting?

I didn't think so.

YMMV.
Jands Vista uses Linux.

MA finally enabled USB?!?!
I think I read about that actually...

Doom on a thumb drive just made me wonder really badly if you could boot a LiveCD on any consoles...

In turn, that made me think that it would be great to have a bootable external hard drive (or iPod) with something similar to a LiveCD on it, so that when you plug it in and boot the computer you get a fresh OS that can't be screwed up. You could have it set up with Windows emulation (assuming its Linux, I don't know of any other OSs with LiveCDs) and all your console software installed. You'd be able to save shows to recall later of course, but basically no matter what you did (short of deleting the system) you'd have it brand new with just a reboot! I wonder if you could do that with Windows though, cause I'm not sure how much you can do under Winows emulation...

Yeep, I'm getting ideas...

I'm a fan of Linux in case you haven't noticed yet. ;) But I love Apple hardware (omg sexy).
 
Note I said "Embedded Linux." I think you're going down the wrong path. Trying to figure a way to "restore" a system that should never have been corrupted in the first place. Along the same lines I recently told a console developer how I wanted the system to behave in the event of a crash. He said, "wouldn't you prefer they never crashed at all?" Doooh.

I want a Lighting Control Console that won't allow the user to get to the OS, or the bios, or the boot area of the drive. That's the way they've always been, and that's the way they should always be. I forget where on ControlBooth I mentioned the Colortran Gold Medallion that ran on OS/9 (not the Apple one), but the console died prematurely due to the OS and non-acceptance by the industry, among other reasons.
 
Only in that it makes me giggle...and want to pinch your cheeks...but that may be because I'm sitting in a tech that I don't care about and am trying not to be angry about it.
1) Cheek pinching may be considered inappropriate touching or PDA

2) How can you NOT care about your tech. rehearsal?
We've got magic to do........ Just for you
We've got miracle plays to play
We've got parts to perform.... Hearts to warm
Kings and things to take by storm
As we go along our way

3) Don't get mad, get even.
 
1) Cheek pinching may be considered inappropriate touching or PDA
2) How can you NOT care about your tech. rehearsal?
We've got magic to do........ Just for you
We've got miracle plays to play
We've got parts to perform.... Hearts to warm
Kings and things to take by storm
As we go along our way

3) Don't get mad, get even.

Namely because its not my Tech reh.....

And don't worry I will get even.
 
We're using a Jands Vista on the show I'm currently working on, and I happened to notice that it is based on none other than Linux! RedHat to be exact. I think I have a new favorite console.

Bringing back an old thread here, but I was poking around a Vista console software update iso and noticed that it's actually based on Ubuntu. I was able to boot the image in VirtualBox and get it installed. Unfortunately the emulated hardware isn't a perfect match, so some things (notably the X server) don't work without some tweaking of config files and whatnot, but it's fascinating seeing the OS behind the machine. They even left Firefox installed.

CTRL-ALT-F4, sudo su, passwd
I now own root. That's all it takes on the console. It looks like sshd is running by default, too. I wonder why.

Lots of fun to be had with this.
 

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