Is College for Me?

StewTech

Member
Howdy all.

I know the sticky has some information, but this is really a specific problem.

I have been involved in educational theatre and community theatre since I can remember. Last summer, I interned at a larger local production house, and this summer, I worked with the local Light-Opera company. I love it, and I want to do it for a living.

However, here is my conundrum;

I am planning on attending Otterbein University for a BFA in Theatre Design and Technology. However, I am going to have to take a out a loan of about $16,000 a year-my scholarships only covered about half. That's going to put me in a lot of debt. And the people in that program have said that a job is not something you can maintain during school because the program is so intense. I'd love to go, but it's very expensive.

To top it off, since I have no credit-I've never had a credit card or loan before, I need a cosigner for every loan I've tried applying for. Well, my mother refuses to cosign because she has already cosigned all of my sisters loans, and doesn't want to take on any more. However, my father has terrible credit, and recently went bankrupt. So every loan I've applied for has been denied. In other words, I can't pay for this school.

So, is it worth striving to make it work out and be that far in debt for a career in theatre? Or should I not go to school at all, and try to get a job at a smaller production house? Or, do I find a cheaper school with a less-than-awesome theatre program and make that work?

What would you all recommend?

Thanks,
B.
 
Without help that you won't have to pay back, I think the traditional college route is not for you. 60k+ in debt is a lot of loans... by the time you get out that will probably be 70k after tuition goes up. That is WAY to much for anyone who wants a job in the arts.

So, now what to do. You could go the cheap state school route, keep it cheap, and get as much out of it as possible. There is nothing wrong with that. Your piece of paper only takes you as far as your first gig.

You could also do the community college thing and try to get as much out of that as possible.

Finally, you could start sweeping the floor at your local rental shop. Odds are in 4 years you will have as much experience as anyone getting out of school and won't be broke as hell. Start calling shops. You could also start working at your local arts center or whatever and try to get in there. Where are you living now? Is there anywhere you can get work while not having to pay for every meal and keep a roof over your head?
 
... So, is it worth striving to make it work out and be that far in debt for a career in theatre? ...
Whether it's worth it or not, look at the practicalities. How do you expect to pay back at least $64K in student loans, even at 3% but more likely 6-10%, while making $10-15/hour?

...Or, do I find a cheaper school with a less-than-awesome theatre program and make that work? ...
Bear in mind it's been 30+ years since I was looking at Ohio colleges. Off the top of my head, Wright State, CCM, Bowling Green, and Kent State are all more affordable, arguably better than Otterbein, and far from "less-than-awesome." I believe all offer a BFA.
 
That is WAY to much for anyone who wants a job in the arts.

That's what I was thinking.

Where are you living now? Is there anywhere you can get work while not having to pay for every meal and keep a roof over your head?

I'm currently living with my family. I graduated high school in May, so I haven't moved out yet.

There are jobs in the area-but nothing that would really be able to help me into my career. The Renaissance Theatre, where I've already interned, has hired me again as a Follow Spot Operator. I'll have that for the two weeks of the show. I did just finish working with the Ohio Light Opera, and I'm hoping that they may want someone for next year's summer stock. And since the gentleman I worked for was *ahem* released half way through the season, I am hoping that his job would be offered to me.

But in the meantime, I've just been plugging my resume out to anywhere that is hiring anything theatrical. I even applied to a couple of theatres in Australia that were looking for ASMs. Places in any art-friendly area that need Run Crew, Board Ops, Follow Spot Operators, anything. I've even been so gutsy to apply for several ASM, SM, LD and such positions. I feel confident that I could handle it, but I feel like most of them are going to laugh as 90% of my experience is from community and educational theatre.

I am afraid, too, that I will end up in a min. wage job as a SpotOp at my local theatre, and keep living with my parents for the rest of my life; which is not what I want to do.

Off the top of my head, Wright State, CCM, Bowling Green, and Kent State are all more affordable, arguably better than Otterbein, and far from "less-than-awesome." I believe all offer a BFA.

I did apply for CCM, but I didn't make it. I have looked at BGSU, but everyone that I've spoken too has said that I'd be wasting my money there. I have seriously considered Kent, and BW, but that would mean killing off another year and applying next summer, hoping to get in, and that also makes me nervous.

I am not, however, tied to Ohio. I did apply and seriously consider The University of Anchorage, AK. However, Otterbein had a higher job placement rate, and they require and internship in your sr. year, which I really liked the idea of. So I'm currently enrolled there, I've got classes scheduled, and a roommate, and a dorm, and whatnot. I feel like I have to decide quickly, because I move in August 22.

I think I'm getting an ulcer from the worrying.
 
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I did apply for CCM, but I didn't make it. I have looked at BGSU, but everyone that I've spoken too has said that I'd be wasting my money there. I have seriously considered Kent, and BW, but that would mean killing off another year and applying next summer, hoping to get in, and that also makes me nervous.
Did you look at their spring semester application deadlines too, or just the fall ones?

If I were in your situation I would probably get a job (whatever I could, hopefully something at least somewhat relative, though any customer service will be a plus) and then I would save up until I had enough money to get to a better location. Keep sending out your (readily updated) resume, and getting as much local theatre work as you can. I would set a deadline for moving, say August 2013, either you get into a college program (spring or fall) and you're moving there with a little bit saved up, or you have found someplace to move with more opportunities. Either way there is a definite point at which you would roll the dice.
 
I am not, however, tied to Ohio. I did apply and seriously consider The University of Anchorage, AK. However, Otterbein had a higher job placement rate, and they require and internship in your sr. year, which I really liked the idea of. So I'm currently enrolled there, I've got classes scheduled, and a roommate, and a dorm, and whatnot. I feel like I have to decide quickly, because I move in August 22.

Your not going there, I think that decision has already been made.

Unless grandma gives you a bunch of money or someone hits the lottery, the current economic and college situation do not line up for you to go to school and still be able to survive in the real world. That sucks, a lot. Blame the generation before you that did not uphold the social contract that "everyone deserves and affordable education". However, it is the situation your in.

Get as much work as you can right now. Apply to anywhere that will give you work AND house you (Cedar Point, most summerstocks, etc.). Watch backstagejobs.com like a hawk. Assume you will be making just enough money to eat... however this is now going to become your version of college.

The freelance lifestyle can work if you want it to. It means that when there is work, you gobble it up from every source possible. Many of the guys who work for me do this. This industry is set up for it because there is never enough good people and at the same time there is never enough work or there is too much work. One connection can easily lead to another. I hire just about everyone that works at one of the local LORT houses because their TD works for me. So, get all the work you can. In the mean time don't be afraid of a job in industry. I spent a summer pulling cable for an electrical contractor, it was one of the best learning experience I ever had. Call up the local IBEW and see if they can get you some apprentice work. Do the same for the carpenters union and iron workers. Having a trade in your back can do wonders.

Finally, there is always the military if you really find yourself in a hole. If I get a resume' on my desk that has military experience, that person is usually my first call... no questions asked.
 
That's what I was thinking.

I did apply for CCM, but I didn't make it. I have looked at BGSU, but everyone that I've spoken too has said that I'd be wasting my money there.
I think I'm getting an ulcer from the worrying.

I graduated from BG a year and a half ago, it was a great program then and has only improved since I left. Their design classes every once in awhile leave small gaps that you need to fill in with your own experience, but they just got a new department head who was one of the best people I worked with there and is on the tech side so he knows what the department needs. Also they just opened the wolfe center this year so now they've gotten all the kinks worked out and know how to work around any problems they have. The tuition has gone up a little bit, but if you can get on grant-in-aid which is just an "audition" to show some of your work and tell them about yourself. You have to work in the shop for so many hours a week and they cover a large portion of the tuition.

They've got LED's to play with, though they still only have S4 Revolutions for movers, but otherwise the rest of the building is a state of the art theatre that rivals a lot of the proffessional theatres in cleveland and columbus. Plus the faculty there are great people. They know a lot and I call many of them friends.
 
Your not going there, I think that decision has already been made.


Get as much work as you can right now. Apply to anywhere that will give you work AND house you (Cedar Point, most summerstocks, etc.). Watch backstagejobs.com like a hawk. Assume you will be making just enough money to eat... however this is now going to become your version of college.

The freelance lifestyle can work if you want it to. It means that when there is work, you gobble it up from every source possible. Many of the guys who work for me do this. This industry is set up for it because there is never enough good people and at the same time there is never enough work or there is too much work. One connection can easily lead to another. I hire just about everyone that works at one of the local LORT houses because their TD works for me. So, get all the work you can. In the mean time don't be afraid of a job in industry. I spent a summer pulling cable for an electrical contractor, it was one of the best learning experience I ever had. Call up the local IBEW and see if they can get you some apprentice work. Do the same for the carpenters union and iron workers. Having a trade in your back can do wonders.

Finally, there is always the military if you really find yourself in a hole. If I get a resume' on my desk that has military experience, that person is usually my first call... no questions asked.

That's probably the most reasonable option. I have sent out my resume to several places on there, and I did just finish summerstock, and I'm getting ready for another show.

I did apply for a position as as a Spot Op for the Big Apple Circus. They pay your travel, meals and such. That would be awesome to have, because not only would I have a job and place to live, but I'd be able to tell people I didn't go to Otterbein because I ran off with the circus. :p
I graduated from BG a year and a half ago, it was a great program then and has only improved since I left. Their design classes every once in awhile leave small gaps that you need to fill in with your own experience, but they just got a new department head who was one of the best people I worked with there and is on the tech side so he knows what the department needs. Also they just opened the wolfe center this year so now they've gotten all the kinks worked out and know how to work around any problems they have. The tuition has gone up a little bit, but if you can get on grant-in-aid which is just an "audition" to show some of your work and tell them about yourself. You have to work in the shop for so many hours a week and they cover a large portion of the tuition.

They've got LED's to play with, though they still only have S4 Revolutions for movers, but otherwise the rest of the building is a state of the art theatre that rivals a lot of the proffessional theatres in cleveland and columbus. Plus the faculty there are great people. They know a lot and I call many of them friends.

That makes me feel better.

I haven't looked at any spring semester deadlines...perhaps that is something I should do.

Of course, I could always go to the OSU Mansfield Branch and live at home for two years, get my Associates in Theatre. That's a good option too, right?
 
Have you thought about taking a year off and working to save some money and going to collage a year later or maybe two .collage will help you get ahead in the industry but it is not needed .A good work ethic and doing the best job possible is what will get you ahaed in this industry
 
The good thing about college is it's never too late to start. Sure, it will be harder to schedule in as time goes on, but with online classes, grants, etc you can knock it out eventually. May take a little longer, but it's not a race. By then, you will be more financially secure.
 
The good thing about college is it's never too late to start. Sure, it will be harder to schedule in as time goes on, but with online classes, grants, etc you can knock it out eventually. May take a little longer, but it's not a race. By then, you will be more financially secure.

However, that is going to be a useless degree. Any fine arts program that is online or night only is probably not worth the paper it is printed on.
 
What I can say about Otterbein is that they are very good about job placement in Columbus. Jeez, it seems like everyone I've met here went there for undergrad. Whether it's worth the money is debatable. A lot of people finish in three years, and I've heard that for actors one should avoid it like the plague. Tech wise, it seems to be strong. They also have ROTC options and apparently are good about providing scholarships even after you're already attending.

BGSU is also a decent program (with a whole new theatre/equipment) and is in a "building stage", so they're actively trying to improve it. Either way (BGSU/Otterbein), I might be able to provide you with some informal introductions to a few people.

I'm doing a show with Kent State's lighting professor and she seems very good as well. Don't know anyone there very well, but half the staff at Vincent went there.

OSU and OU I've been told aren't to hot for Undergrad, but Wright State might be to look at as well.

Regardless, if you end up in Columbus or want any advice about this town, shoot me a PM.
 
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However, that is going to be a useless degree. Any fine arts program that is online or night only is probably not worth the paper it is printed on.

True. I was speaking of completing basics online. Not sure if the fine arts portion would be easy to complete while working FT later in life. By that time you would probably have your foot in the door enough that you'd might as well skip the arts degree and go for a business degree or something equally useful for moving up from whatever current position you held.
 
Here is the thing. Right now, you are in the perfect situation. You have no one breathing down your back to "make something of yourself". Your parents are not urging you to go to school. In society's eyes you have 4 years basicly free. If you play your cards right you have the potential to be farther along in 4 years than anyone comeing out of undergrad. Odds are you will also be in a lot less debt.

Throw your hat in the ring with Big Apple. They are finishing up their run about 30 minutes north of me right now. They are a top notch organization. One of my former (he is now out with Ringling) guys went out with them for a year. He enjoyed it. The beauty of them is they fully support you, ie no out of pocket expenses. Apply to them... as well as Feld, all the cruise ships, and just about anywhere else you can send a resume' that is not the traditional rep theatre.

I still look back and wonder what would have happened if I had just gone for it instead of going to school. I'm glad I went to school, but don't like the loans I have to pay off. Granted, between my wife and I we got off easy compared to what people are leaving with now, but it still sucks. So, take the opportunity and go with it. Its your life. Make it yours.
 
What I can say about Otterbein is that they are very good about job placement in Columbus. Jeez, it seems like everyone I've met here went there for undergrad. Whether it's worth the money is debatable. A lot of people finish in three years, and I've heard that for actors one should avoid it like the plague. Tech wise, it seems to be strong. They also have ROTC options and apparently are good about providing scholarships even after you're already attending.

BGSU is also a decent program (with a whole new theatre/equipment) and is in a "building stage", so they're actively trying to improve it. Either way (BGSU/Otterbein), I might be able to provide you with some informal introductions to a few people.

I'm doing a show with Kent State's lighting professor and she seems very good as well. Don't know anyone there very well, but half the staff at Vincent went there.

OSU and OU I've been told aren't to hot for Undergrad, but Wright State might be to look at as well.

Regardless, if you end up in Columbus or want any advice about this town, shoot me a PM.

Will do!

Here is the thing. Right now, you are in the perfect situation. You have no one breathing down your back to "make something of yourself". Your parents are not urging you to go to school. In society's eyes you have 4 years basicly free. If you play your cards right you have the potential to be farther along in 4 years than anyone comeing out of undergrad. Odds are you will also be in a lot less debt.

Throw your hat in the ring with Big Apple. They are finishing up their run about 30 minutes north of me right now. They are a top notch organization. One of my former (he is now out with Ringling) guys went out with them for a year. He enjoyed it. The beauty of them is they fully support you, ie no out of pocket expenses. Apply to them... as well as Feld, all the cruise ships, and just about anywhere else you can send a resume' that is not the traditional rep theatre.

I did apply with Big Apple, and I hope I get it. I will definitely have to look into to cruise ships...

The good thing about college is it's never too late to start. Sure, it will be harder to schedule in as time goes on, but with online classes, grants, etc you can knock it out eventually. May take a little longer, but it's not a race. By then, you will be more financially secure.

I know, I'm just afraid that if I don't do it soon, I'll never do it, you know?

Does anyone have any recommendations of non-traditional theatre settings I could apply to?
 
After reading through this thread I saw someone mentioned trying to work at Cedar Point. I think this would be perfect for you. I am working there now as an Electrician on Luminosity and love it, for the most part. Working for them is not a bad gig at all. Housing for next to nothing a week, REALLY cheap food in the employee cafeteria and they actually pay really well for their positions. Also you can potentially work for them in live entertainment from April/ May to November depending. What is a bulk of your experience in? stage management, electrics, carpentry?
 
Also luminosity is a huge step up as far as tech for them. They never had much of anything at that scale. It's a decent company most of the time.


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I agree with just about everything that's been said so far. I also think Cedar point would be a great option. There are several people around here with cool jobs who spent time working in theme parks when they were starting.

As a former Community College T.D., I want to draw your attention back to that idea. Do you have any C.C.'s in your area? Do they have a drama program and theater? Here's the thing. If you can find a C.C. with a knowledgeable T.D. you can learn a lot and you can get a ton of experience. C.C. T.D.'s don't have a huge stable of great technicians to choose from. You will be one of a few people with real experience. You will have the opportunity to work on every show in every aspect of production, in the end you can leave with far more experience than a Freshman or Sophomore gets at a normal 4 year school. If you find a good T.D. to teach you, you can learn a lot. Now yes, there aren't a lot of great C.C. drama programs out there, but if you find a good one, it can be an excellent experience for a very good price.
 
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... I also think Cedar Point would be a great option. There are several people around here with cool jobs who spent time working in theme parks when they were starting. ...
And some still do (work in a theme park as a career).;) However, let's be realistic. What are the odds of a Major Theme Park hiring a fresh-out-of-high-school technician? I know one used to have an unwritten rule that they wouldn't consider hiring even "rising sophomores" I guess is the fashionable term, no matter how much experience on the resume.

Besides the education, a four-year college serves as a transition between adolescence and adulthood. I don't think anyone should recommend that an 18 year-old to move a big city in the hopes of landing a shop job with <three letter initialed lighting company>. Same for touring and cruise ship jobs; if they're willing to hire a high school student, how good can the company be, and can/will they pay a decent wage? That being said, see the job listing services at the end of the collaborative article Getting a Job in the Industry - ControlBooth .

... Does anyone have any recommendations of non-traditional theatre settings I could apply to?
Find an A/V company in your area that does corporate shows. Just don't expect to be programming lighting or mixing audio for XYZ Pharma's new product launch. Corporate clients tend to frown on seeing an 18 year-old in a position of responsibility.

Also, in many markets there is a non-union stage labor company: Rhino Staging, CrewOne, Chicago Stagehand, etc. However, I wonder how many of their employees work often enough or earn enough to fully support themselves. For that matter, how many IATSE stagehands are full-time employees, particularly outside large cities?

I graduated from BG a year and a half ago, it was a great program then and has only improved since I left. ...
I note that two of Otterbein's professors got their undergrad at BGSU. Just sayin'.
 
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