Issue with Mains

Dan Fischer

Active Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Location
Rochester, NY
Pictures both front and back of all that you have would be helpful. At the risk of sounding insolent when we teach our students how to trouble shoot we ask them "where is it coming from and where do you want it to go?" In other words start at the source (mic, laptop, cd player, etc) then work down the line to sound console, then to eq to processor (crossover) if you have them, then amps and finally speakers until you locate the issue. In this case if you are able to mix sound without issue with headphones on you know it's not the source. Just to rule it out I'd try some type of powered speaker (can even be a small studio monitor) at the console output and then again at the input connection at the amp just to rule everything else out. If you have clear sound at the amp input connection the next step would be to find a passive (un-powered) speaker to try at the amp output (at very low level just to make sure you don't blow anything up). This can really be anything, even an old car speaker would tell you if the amp has clear output. If it does you know you have a speaker wire issue or the speakers are toast. With that being said the chances of blowing both compression drivers and woofers in both speakers iat the same time is really, really rare unless the amp is toast and fried everything all at once. Hope any of this helps.
 
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Dan Fischer

Active Member
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Nov 6, 2015
Location
Rochester, NY
It's impossible to recommend a specific amplifier without knowing what speakers you're driving. That said, I've had some good experiences with both Crown XLI series and QSC GX series amplifiers. Both are fairly basic, low-end models made by well-known and well-respected companies. Both are not especially well-suited for driving multiple speakers per channel (their minimum impedance specifications are not too low), but would likely be perfectly fine for your application, where they're dedicated to a single speaker per channel, and should last for many years. Either would be a definite step up from the Pyle amp. Figure maybe $300-$500+ or so new, depending on your power output requirements.

(I have seen a few GX amplifiers where the power switch got somewhat flakey after a good bit of use over several years. It's a standard sort of snap-in rocker switch, not at all hard to replace by someone reasonably adept at electronics repair, no soldering required.)
+1 on this. The only amp brands you want to consider in a commercial or pro environment are Crown, QSC, Dynacord or Lab Gruppen. Anything else doesn't have the power supply robust enough to handle the rigors of everyday use.
 

Gobokat

Active Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2015
Location
Chicago
Good job on finding the offending link in your signal chain.

While you're reviewing alternate amp choices, allow me to ask how much you know about the speakers you'll be attaching it to. Do you know the model? You said they're probably EV, but what vintage and how much attention has been paid to them - are the drivers good (cones/magnets/crossovers)? Further, are they independently connected to the amp (i.e. spk A to output L and spk B to output R) or are they mono connected as one center channel, and at that are they serially or parallel connected? The reason I'm asking is that you said things were good one moment and a few hours later, having changed nothing in your set up, the amp was bad. Could be the quality of the amp, but might also be that the speakers presented an impedance outside the operation zone of the amp or maybe they have a gremlin in them that needs attention and aided in the quick demise of the otherwise probably borderline amp.

Might be a good time to get facilities to bring them down and have a look at them, might be a better time to try to convince the admins to let you look at self-powered cabinets. There are some really nice, not too expensive boxes from QSC, Yamaha, JBL, and others that would simplify your signal path, and eliminate the potential problems of impedance and power mismatches going forward.

Just something to consider as you find your solution.
 

taneglaus

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Location
Wasatch Back, Utah!
has this issue been resolved? I see the last post was 9 days ago. If it’s still an issue, I have signal path troubleshooting steps that would probably point to the problem within an hour or less.
 

microstar

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Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Location
Lawton, OK
+1 on this. The only amp brands you want to consider in a commercial or pro environment are Crown, QSC, Dynacord or Lab Gruppen. Anything else doesn't have the power supply robust enough to handle the rigors of everyday use.
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want a Powersoft, EV, Yamaha, JBL, RCF, Ashly, or Bose Pro amplifier in my commercial environment.
 

Ben Stiegler

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Aug 3, 2017
Location
Sf Bay Area
Wait - are you hanging the amp up in the rafters or grid? Keeping speaker lines short is admirable, but I'd be thinking that location over again - especially in a school environment.
Also - given that your speakers date from 1984 - maybe a different approach is worth considering.

Speakers degrade over time. Cones stiffen, magnets lose some field strength, and cross-over components can age or fail. Perhaps a better alternative, assuming there's a way to get power to the speaker locations, is to hang 2 active speakers and dispense with the nearly 40 year old speakers and the Pyle ... thing. You can get incredible sound out of very small boxes these days - its amazing when I think about the weight and size of the stuff we used to lug around (Altec A-7s, etc.).

If you stay with separate amp, I also strongly recommend a power sequencer - it only takes once for the thump of death. Even if the Behringer board is good about self-muting, someday a student or touring company tech will unplug the board outputs to connect something else and you're in danger territory. JuiceGoose and others make remotely controllable sequencers

Many active speakers already have a slow on-ramp time built into them. Talk to sales engineering at the mfr. QSC K10.2 or K12.2s.

Finally - whomever "hung" those speakers in 1984 ... the science of rigging wasn't very well developed yet. I've seen tons of school stuff hung dangerously - for example, using non-forged hardware, or improvised hanging points with hardware store screw-eyes instead of using purpose-designed rigging points. I am guilty of such installations myself, back when I was in high school and we just made it up as we went along.

That's one more reason to get that lift and at least do an inspection - for cracks, broken cable strands on aircraft cable used for hanging, loose locknuts on ubolts, etc.

Deploying new, powered, riggable speakers and using certified rigging hardware will put you far ahead in the safety game. In fact, your district risk management officer could be enlisted to help sell the idea.

BTW - what's the venue size? shape? We love when people post pictures - makes it easier to pontificate constructively for you.
 
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Dan Fischer

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Nov 6, 2015
Location
Rochester, NY
Yeah, I certainly wouldn't want a Powersoft, EV, Yamaha, JBL, RCF, Ashly, or Bose Pro amplifier in my commercial environment.
HaHa - good point.... However EV is Dynacord. JBL is Crown. FWIW - I love Ashly Audio gear. I own a bunch. But I was trying to stick with brands readily available and at last check you can't run down to your local Guitar Center to pick-up a Powersoft, RCF or Ashly.
 

RonHebbard

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Premium Member
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Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
HaHa - good point.... However EV is Dynacord. JBL is Crown. FWIW - I love Ashly Audio gear. I own a bunch. But I was trying to stick with brands readily available and at last check you can't run down to your local Guitar Center to pick-up a Powersoft, RCF or Ashly.
@Dan Fischer You're in Rochester, isn't that where Ashly's began?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
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Dan Fischer

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Nov 6, 2015
Location
Rochester, NY

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Ancient Engineer

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Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Location
Sandusky, Ohio
<Slaps forehead> I have a wide variety of Crown amps here that we'd be pleased as punch to donate: Macros, Micros, CTs.

How can we help? Did you fix this?



We are in the process of changing over to QSC amps at all locations in the park for a multiple of reasons.

We have about 35 Bogen Cs and TPUs in a few non-networked locations.
The remaining 85 or so are a mix of Crowns (less than 15 now) and QSC.
 

ACTSTech

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Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Location
USA
At 69 pounds, will your structure / rated rigging gear, safely support 69 pounds over people's heads (Performers are people too)?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
I would be cautious defining performers as people. Many define themselves far above people...

This is stupid, but have you tried to reset the x32? Someone (or a gremlin) played with one I've worked on and activated all of the effects and reverb and whatnot so that the signal wasn't actually making it to the outs. Like you said, people could hear it on the iPad but it never reached the amp. A hard reset and upgrade of the firmware put it back in order, but they lost all their settings in the process.
 

RonHebbard

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Premium Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2004
Location
Waterdown, ON, CA
I would be cautious defining performers as people. Many define themselves far above people...

This is stupid, but have you tried to reset the x32? Someone (or a gremlin) played with one I've worked on and activated all of the effects and reverb and whatnot so that the signal wasn't actually making it to the outs. Like you said, people could hear it on the iPad but it never reached the amp. A hard reset and upgrade of the firmware put it back in order, but they lost all their settings in the process.
@ACTSTech "Many actorines define themselves FAR above people".
Obviously zero problem as their heads are no doubt far above the speakers; my only worry'd be them bruising their shins, potentially dislodging the 69 pound speakers, sending them hurtling into the audience, likely injuring patrons, eliciting lawsuits, and reducing revenue. Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 

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