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I've never seen such an animal...

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Les, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    I came across an old ellipsoidal lighting fixture and I'm wondering what type of lamp it takes. It appears to be from the late 50's - early 60's era. It has one 6" lens (6 x 9 focal length) and a non-axial socket. It appears to have a prefocus base, but I've heard that a BTN, BTL style of lamp is too short and the filament wont be positioned correctly in the reflector.

    I'm not sure if the fixture originally had only one lens. The one it has is thicker than one of a 360Q, but it's not a stepped lens. Also, the lens appears clear, not 'coke-bottle green'. The reason I don't think it's supposed to have a second lens is because with the spacer in, it appears to not have room for another. The spacer just keeps the lens at the right place in the barrel. I took a 360Q base and stuck the lamp in the reflector and turned it on, and the light that came out appeared focused. It was just a weird shape because the lamp wasn't far enough in.

    All the shutters are in good shape, and have probably been replaced. It looks like it takes the same shutters as a 360Q. The leads look like asbestos and are seperated from each other. I would replace it but each conductor enters the light through a different hole. Does anyone have any suggestions? Maybe I should see if I can just drill a new, big hole in the middle. I would consider replacing the base too (to retrofit a 2-pin lamp) but the one it has looks to be in good condition, and I don't really want to have to design and build a complicated riser system.

    Another key feature of this light is that the pivot knobs are etched and are in the shape of theatrical masks (happy, unhappy). Other than that, there is no marquee of indication of who made the light and when. Can anyone help? I'll try to post a picture if anyone asks.
     
  2. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  3. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    All that stuff in the middle is actually a link that should take you to the picture on ebay where I got it.
     
  4. BNBSound

    BNBSound Active Member

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    Looks like an old Kliegel or Ward-Leonard, can't remember which but probably the latter. Why the interest? Are you into antique lighting equpment?
     
  5. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    I just bought it because it was cool looking and it seems to be in good condidion. It's more of just something to look at rather than to actually use on stage.
     
  6. davidfitwe

    davidfitwe Member

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    Lester from what I can tell from the picture this is an altman stage lighting model no 365. the lamp is a dnt 750 w medium prefocus, this info is from the photometrics handbook.
     
  7. ccfan213

    ccfan213 Active Member

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    we have a whole bunch of antique fixtures just like that, are they worth anything?
     
  8. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    $14.51 was the winning vote on this one!
     
  9. Les

    Les Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be a good, working light fixture. It actually cleaned up real well. Also, I think in the bottom picture the lens was in backwards. I fixed it when it arrived. It would be cool if it was worth something, but mayhem is probably right. I guess having a few of these is better than having no stage lights. They're atleast a part of theatrical lighting history. That's one reason why I bought it.
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    My vote would also be for a Kliegl also though while I have seen similar fixtures with that style of lamp cap, I have never seen that style of knob in use. Could also be Major as a brand. Lots of fixtures in that era had similar lamp caps. Go to http://www.klieglbros.com/ for some more in depth photos to confirm your Leko. Single lens Lekos were very common thugh what might seem 6x9 could be more like 6x12. Test focus it in comparison to a known beam spread fixture. I have a friend that has road box upon road box full of similar fixtures in storage. He will never use them but also won't part with them either.

    Interesting that this one has a ground wire. Could either be a late version of the fixtures from that era or something someone upgraded in the 70's.

    On lamps, the 750w EGG would be a more cost effective halogen upgrade lamp to the DNT as a direct upgrade to it. The EGE would otherwise be a 500w replacement lamp. It's not a very efficient lighting fixture given the size of cut out in the reflector, but will definately throw some light out on the stage with a decent beam. They can supplement other more efficient Lekos well. Other theaters some times take the lens out and use them for back stage lighting. Don't know why they remove the lens but that's what I have seen at times.

    In the cap, yes you should be able to drill out one of the holes and fit it with a two screw strain relief. I recommend using a 3/8" NPT strain relief as opposeed to a more normal 1/2" one you can get at any hardware store. The smaller strain relief you might have to special order from say Altman or possibly is available from McMaster will fit much better inside the cap. Use high temperature thread locker.

    To do the asbestos replacemen, take the fixture outside and bring a trash bag. Put on a good mask, and bring a can of air or air line and a pair of wire cutters. Cut the whip off where it enters the lamp cap and place it in the trash bag. Don't try saving the plug, such open faced plugs are now against code to use much less it's not worth the exposure with them. Open up the lamp cap and snip the asbestos now where it terminates at the lamp base and trash it. All the asbestos part of the whip should be gone now, though cleaning with 409 or water might be of use. At least before taking the fixture back inside, use the can of air to blow out the instrument and yourself than go in to wash up. The amount of asbestos on the cable whip should not be enough to need to do specialized disposal processes of it but you can call your local trash company to verify such a thing. Seal the bag up.

    In re-wiring it, it should be easy enough to use some 16ga SF-2 wire with fiberglass sleeve over it as if a normal Leko and drill a ground into the lamp cap or better yet mounting plate for lamp base. Be careful of the two screw strain relief however. I have found the ones from Altman recently to be kind of rough in finish and edge. A trip to the wire wheel to smooth over it's edges might be useful. Also some high temperature fiberglass electrical tape around the fiberglass sleeve at the clamp will help to prevent damage to the whip by the strain relief.

    After that, while the ground can have a normal nickel plated copper crimp on ring terminal - 14-16ga, #10 stud, the wires at the lamp base will need to be of high temperature steel instead. A McMaster part. Use the above tape to insulate the #8 stud ring terminal. While servicing the lamp cap, as per the other post on a similar lamp cap with if necessary re-surfacing it if blown, check the spring tension on the center contact. Also under the lamp base should be some form of fiber spacer between cap and metal. If this insulator/spacer is not in good shape, it should be a easy part to replace as similar to any other Fresnel insulator. In fact, it should be the same lamp base should it need replacement.

    Depending on how much use the lamp base has had, you might need to replace the brass screw terminals and stainless steel lamp base mounting screws. If nothing else, adding a bronze external tooth lock washer to the terminals would be helpful.

    A little spray on graphite or dry lube to the lens train and shutters and all should be in great shape. Fun and easy fixtures to fix. Have fun with it.

    As for it's worth, that's hard to say these days given the amount of old style 575w S-4 fixtures on the market. I might put it in the $25 to $50.00 range once modernized for wiring and serviced.
     

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