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Kabuki Drop - dangerous?

Discussion in 'Scenery, Props, and Rigging' started by Charc, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    DMX-512 USITT Draft 1991 (or something like that, I can't remember) stated that this data protocol was not to be used for anything potentially life threatening. So, MIDI became the protocol of choice for rigging/automation, correct?

    However, a kabuki drop doesn't count as rigging/automation? Anyone else seen that DMX-512 kabuki drop? Seems cool to me.

    I'd be happy if everything was run on DMX. ;) want some coffee made? No problem, channel 50. Want to turn the heat up? Sure, channel 56. Want to warmup the engine of your car? No problem, channel 67.

    (I'm getting carried away, so back on top...)
     
  2. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    Link? to the DMX Kabuki Drop? Dropping 20 pounds of china silk, (or for Van, tricot) spread out across 40'-60' isn't particularly dangerous, but accidental triggers can and do (seldom) happen with any automated system.

    The problem with using DMX-512A (or any variant) is its inherent lack of error-checking. The receiving device is "dumb" and will do whatever it is told. There's a thread on "the other board" right now about whether or not adding a "deadman switch" is an appropriate safety device. All quality dangerous devices that use DMX or Midi, or MSC, will include a PLC to monitor for safety, often including a deadman, and only if all safety devices are secure, will execute what the DMX or other external trigger tells it to do.

    As far as controlling everything with DMX, check out this, this, and that. Whether or not ACN is appropriate for controlling dangerous devices has yet to be addressed, as far as I know (or can remember).
     
  3. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

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    A good question for Steve Terry... has there been any discussion of ACN and triggering "dangerous" systems? Just sent him a PM to make sure he sees this thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2007
  4. STEVETERRY

    STEVETERRY Well-Known Member

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    Since ACN is an Inherently reliable protocol with guaranteed message delivery, there is no such prohibition.

    However, the wise system designer will always insert a final interlock, such as a dead-man switch, between the automated execution and the actual execution.

    ST
     
  5. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    I guess I didn't mean dangerous, but being in the realm of rigging, I thought it inherently shouldn't run on DMX. However, I though the USITT draft stated that DMX was only prohibited from dangerous situations, not rigging applications.

    Link? I think it has bee advertised in LD, multiple times. I can check an issue down in my room later.
     
  6. Footer

    Footer Senior Team Senior Team Premium Member

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    I personally just don't like automation running directly off of a lighting console. Running off a separate unit that is cued by the lighting console and has a second operator... fine... but not direct. It makes cueing a pain and its to easy to jump a cue.
     
  7. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    I can just hear it on the headset.

    "Roll On One".

    SB
     
  8. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    There's been an interesting - and very long as is typical, thread on the stagecraft list about powered rigging systems and automated controls for such.

    One pointed comment that came up with the Vertek system was the difficulty in skipping cues, a common occurrence and readily do-able in lighting and audio systems. Seems the Vortek controls, and others as I was led to believe, have some issues as to how best to accomplish the task desired and called for and are seemingly not as far along in the process as related lighting systems. In general, powered systems are not as well thought of umong the list members, for any number of reasons, though admittedly, many of the list members are old and set in their ways.

    SB
     
  9. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that's a joke, but I don't get it!

    Care to explain, anyone?
     
  10. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    Watch the movie the Green Mile

    JH
     
  11. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    Now that you mention it, it sounds familiar, but I think the movie was "Roll on two".
     
  12. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    You have to roll on one, before you can roll on two?
     
  13. Charc

    Charc Well-Known Member

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    Given that you phrase that as a question...

    I have no idea.
     
  14. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    I feel it was more rhetorical then anything. :D
    JH
     
  15. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    Drops shouldn't be dmx, but like a lot of things, there is what should be, and there is what is. Like 3 pin cable for dmx lines. Like sending dmx down the sound snake. And like triggering a reveal through a dmx tree dimmer set to relay (did that for a 6 week tour).
     
  16. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

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    Roll On One activated the generators to provide power to the system.

    Roll On Two sent the power to the chair.

    The Green Mile was (IMO) one of the better Stephen King books.

    SB
     
  17. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    Minister of Finance: I insist we take up the tax!

    Rufus T. Firefly: I insist we take up the carpet.

    Minister of Finance: I still insist we must take up the tax.

    Rufus T. Firefly: He's right. You've got to take up the tax before you take up the carpet.
     
  18. Logos

    Logos Well-Known Member

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    And what about the sanity clause.

    Everyone knows there ain't no sanity clause.
     
  19. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    You can't come in without the password. I'll give you a hint. It's the name of a fish.

    Is it Mary?

    That's no fish.

    No, but she drinks like one.
     
  20. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    A fish named wanda

    Is my guess.
    JH
     

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