Keys in high school

[FMEng]

Wait a second, just use the breaker.
Then anyone who needs to can use it without a key or much hassle, but those who aren't supposed to be using it will be deterred.

That's a no-no. Most Circuit breakers are not intended to be used as switches on a frequent basis. The extra wear and tear on the breaker may eventually cause it not to perform properly. The last thing you want is a breaker that false trips, or starts a fire because it didn't trip when it should.

Maybe this is just an old electrician's tale, but I prefer to use switches as switches and breakers only for circuit protection.

 

[mbandgeek]

My two cents:

Answer to question one: no.
Revised answer to question one: hell no.

Answer to question two: no.

As much as you take ownership of the venue and systems, in the end it's not your space or building. With keys for convenience comes heaps of responsibility and liability that, as I understand it, you can't legally be liable for.

I once asked in a joking manner to the TD at my high school if i could have a key. He said yes, after i paid 7 million dollars. He made a good point. Why would you need to lock out the booth power if the booth is to be locked at all times anyway?

 

[Footer]

ETC and Strand both used to put keys on all their lighting consoles. They don't do it anymore because the keys simply got lost if they got pulled from the console. In order to keep the keys around, people glued them in to the consoles with epoxy. Don't put a key on a piece of gear in a locked room. Its one thing for a FOH sound position that anyone can walk into, but behind a door? Also, there is no way they are going to let someone from the outside in to come in and install some kind of time lock.

People are touchy about their access to a room. Heres what it really boils down to, the second there is a bomb threat and the entire building goes "red", everything must be locked up and everything must be able to be fully gone through in the event of a top to bottom search.

If there are locks on things that people dont have keys to, the people are not going to be happy. I have master locks on all of my cabinets in both my theatres. The administration has a ring in their lock box with those keys on it, as well as our building engineer. It is a HUGE liability risk to have stuff that can not be opened for any reason if need be. If for some reason that timed lock would lock out the admin as they go through the building, people are not going to be happy. Add to that, telling them that a student has access to that room at any time of the day unmonitored people are really not going to be happy. I know this sounds like a crazy thing to think about, but its a reality. My school has gone full "red" at least one a year for the last 5 years.

 

[waynehoskins]

As for the second bit about power, I'm not looking for a key for a power relay for the entire **** thing At my middle school (though they got an over haul and things are probably no longer the same) they had a key that turned on their lighting system, it was friggin old, all analog dimmers. I'm looking to see if there's something similar that could be implemented for a dmx system. Any one know of something along those lines?

Sure, you could (an opto with a keyswitch in its dc power line comes to mind), but again, why? What's to be gained from that?

Remember, as a student, even though you have taken ownership over the thing (which is good, to treat it as you would if it were yours and such), it's still not your thing. In four years or less you'll be gone, while the space and department and systems will remain for many years past that.

As to keys, then I worked at The Hall some years ago now, only full-timers had permanently-issued keys. The part-timers like me, and the union guys, had to check out a set of keys from the security desk at the stage door each day (though I did get a prox card for the exterior doors on mag locks).

As a church TD, I've got one guy (who's only 16 but knows almost as much as I do) who I would trust implicitly with a set of keys, even though at our place the only key you need is the outside door since nothing of mine is locked-down inside. If we had keys to open this and turn on that, I'd give him a set in a heartbeat for two reasons: I trust him with the keys, and he actually has good reason to have them.

But in general, if as a student you're asking for a set of keys, no offense, you probably shouldn't have them anyway.

 

[waynehoskins]

ETC and Strand both used to put keys on all their lighting consoles. They don't do it anymore because the keys simply got lost if they got pulled from the console. In order to keep the keys around, people glued them in to the consoles with epoxy.

I've got a few old Strand boards with keyswitches. Scary thing, since if I lose the key I can't turn the thing on or off. I've got a Mantrix with two keyswitches but no key; fortunately it's the same key as my MLP. I've got half a mind to change those out -- which I can since they're mine.

In my mind, the only keyswitch a board should have is a record lockout switch, but these days even that's moot since, well, we write to memory more than we did before, and there are ways to backup the board's memory.

 

[willbb123]

The only keys I had in high school were do the patch bay on the dimmers, random padlocks and the props closet. I really wanted a master key, but looking back now I didnt need it.

Now I work in a professional theater building. I have a key that can get me into the building, and closets. But I can not get into the box office or production offices (I was disappointed when I figured this out cause I thought I had a master, but I can not think of a reason why I would need it.) Having a key now allows me to get into the theater early to get stuff ready before crew call.

Now that I have the keys I can be the only one at the theater at times. I am super paranoid when I lock up and check every door in the theater.

 

[superuser2]

An idea:

Have keyrings for specific positions (sound operator, lighting operator, spot operator, etc.) that are passed out at the beginning of the day by an adult and collected before you leave the building. They should open only what you need to access without immediate supervision (booth doors, amp/effects rack, stairs/ladder to catwalk or door to lighting cage.)

You could just have an adult open the doors for you, but if you need to go to the bathroom, etc. then you either leave the door open to everyone else (insecure) or you need an adult to come up the stairs and let you back in (a waste of everyone's time).

But keys to equipment storage (like for microphones, cabling, gels, headsets, etc.) should only be held by the adults. You should not be able to get at that stuff without an adult right there with you. That would be a serious liability.

A keyed power switch is totally unreasonable. That sounds like a power struggle thing to me; you want to make sure you can control who uses the equipment. Only an adult should be capable of making those decisions. If they want to let someone else run the sound board they should not have to track you down to get the key. A locked power switch doesn't prevent theft; it prevents use.

 

[loki]

At our school i get keys to areas i need access to for the duration of a show, Because our school uses Cyber Keys i can only get in at set times and all access is recorded. The other check on that is i dont know the Alarm codes so i have to wait till an adult turns off the school seccurity system.

As for key power, I have seen it done but never in a theater system and i happen to know its rather expensive to do it Properly

 

[renegadeblack]

An idea:

Have keyrings for specific positions (sound operator, lighting operator, spot operator, etc.) that are passed out at the beginning of the day by an adult and collected before you leave the building. They should open only what you need to access without immediate supervision (booth doors, amp/effects rack, stairs/ladder to catwalk or door to lighting cage.)

You could just have an adult open the doors for you, but if you need to go to the bathroom, etc. then you either leave the door open to everyone else (insecure) or you need an adult to come up the stairs and let you back in (a waste of everyone's time).

But keys to equipment storage (like for microphones, cabling, gels, headsets, etc.) should only be held by the adults. You should not be able to get at that stuff without an adult right there with you. That would be a serious liability.

A keyed power switch is totally unreasonable. That sounds like a power struggle thing to me; you want to make sure you can control who uses the equipment. Only an adult should be capable of making those decisions. If they want to let someone else run the sound board they should not have to track you down to get the key. A locked power switch doesn't prevent theft; it prevents use.

The thing is that our choir teacher has a key to the auditorium as well as the booth and when she gives a student the key to open the door to the booth to hit the panic button, they also screw around with things that they think that they know how to work, but of course, don't, not to mention the fact that the door to the booth also gets left unlocked by said students and then other people wander in, in a similar regard, I left the booth open while I wasn't in it, and I get back literally two minutes later and I find someone in there screwing around with the lights!

As for everyone mentioning liability of students having the keys, now that you mention it, I agree. There aren't things that we are the only people that have a key to it, we have keys for all of the appropriate personnel so they are able to investigate everything if such a situation as you've all mentioned should arise.

Also, why do you say that they wouldn't allow someone to come in and install a time lock? They'd do the installing

Just a quick something to mention when I saw someone mention alarms. Every production we have a "super Saturday" 7AM - 10PM. The only part of the school that is open is the hallway parallel to the theatre and choir areas backstage. We have signs on every single door that is alarmed, even people guarding them, but somehow, though none of us understand it, they get tripped. Police come, ugh! Anyone else have those problems?

 

[superuser2]

What is it that those kids need to get into the booth to do? Sounds to me like if they shouldn't be touching the equipment in the booth they shouldn't be let in.

What exactly is the "panic" button you're talking about? It seems to me the simplest solution would be to move that button out of the booth.

 

[elite1trek]

What exactly is the "panic" button you're talking about? It seems to me the simplest solution would be to move that button out of the booth.

The panic button is a button that is used to turn all the house lights and work lights and anything else you need in order to see, in case of emergency.

It is generally kept next to the lighting console...to prevent wandering hands during a performance and just for safety reasons. They do make boxes with faders in them for turning on house and stage lights, without having access to the console. That would be my solution to the un-trained student problem.

We have signs on every single door that is alarmed, even people guarding them, but somehow, though none of us understand it, they get tripped. Police come, ugh! Anyone else have those problems?

Same problem sometimes, but only when nobody is in the building. Ghost. (or a plethora of perfectly rational explanations)

 

[lieperjp]

They do make boxes with faders in them for turning on house and stage lights, without having access to the console. That would be my solution to the un-trained student problem.

+1 for this idea. You can even get covers for these that lock so no one accidentally bumps one during a show.

 

[renegadeblack]

+1 for this idea. You can even get covers for these that lock so no one accidentally bumps one during a show.

We have one, it got bumped during a show by a bit of scenery and no longer works. I've been looking to get it replaced so that people don't need to go in the booth. Not to mention that this board randomly decides that it would like some house lights at which point the only way to fix it is to give it a good whack (which I've been reprimanded for doing on this forum before). This panel (remembrance) is also what manages our entry and panic buttons.


We also unfortunately have entry buttons in addition to the panic button. The panic button turns on worklights as well as house lights. The entry buttons only turn on house lights. The problem is that we have teachers who decide that they want more light and simply push the button when I've already got it covered as well as people mentioned, wandering fingers.

 

[willbb123]

At the theater I work at we have ETC's Unison system. There are "Entry" buttons the lighting booth, sound booth, stage managers spot, and convent places in the house. Some of the panels have a 10 zone sliders in which 4-6 bring up work light, and ten programmable preset buttons. On all the panels that are not a "control" location (light and sound booth, and SM's seat) have a lock out key. When this key is turned at any location you can not change the preset with out unlocking that unit or sticking a key in another location.
In my experience and my personal opinion I would never give keys to the choir director. Keep them with the drama people... I could start a rant on this... but thats for a different thread....

 

[renegadeblack]

At the theater I work at we have ETC's Unison system. There are "Entry" buttons the lighting booth, sound booth, stage managers spot, and convent places in the house. Some of the panels have a 10 zone sliders in which 4-6 bring up work light, and ten programmable preset buttons. On all the panels that are not a "control" location (light and sound booth, and SM's seat) have a lock out key. When this key is turned at any location you can not change the preset with out unlocking that unit or sticking a key in another location.
In my experience and my personal opinion I would never give keys to the choir director. Keep them with the drama people... I could start a rant on this... but thats for a different thread....

For the longest time, she was the only person who we could regularly see to get keys because as I mentioned earlier, our td was never around. She also wants keys because she is the primary user of our auditorium and she actually is the head of the drama department as well. She does have legitimate reason to need to get into there as she needs lights on stage. I have a different thread about replacing the back board that I have so that she will no longer need to go in there

 

[waynehoskins]

She also wants keys because she is the primary user of our auditorium and she actually is the head of the drama department as well.

Whoa! King Of The Booth Complex!

She is the departmental chair. She is the director (you conveniently neglected to mention this). She is faculty or at least staff.

You are a student.

And you are saying that you should have keys without question and complaining that your director "wants" keys?

Check your ego at the door, buddy. It's not going to get you anywhere but trouble.

 

[zuixro]

I had a key to the amp rack in high school. (It was a big black locked box on the stage (which doubles as a classroom) The teacher/TD got tired of me interrupting her class to get to the rack, so she gave me a key) The amp rack doubled as our mic storage. But to get into the room after school hours (for a basketball game for instance) I had to find someone with a room key, and borrow it. This was a unique situation. I was the only tech guy at my school, I was good friends with the TD, and we didn't have anything worth stealing.

 

[renegadeblack]

Whoa! King Of The Booth Complex!

She is the departmental chair. She is the director (you conveniently neglected to mention this). She is faculty or at least staff.

You are a student.

And you are saying that you should have keys without question and complaining that your director "wants" keys?

Check your ego at the door, buddy. It's not going to get you anywhere but trouble.

In my experience and my personal opinion I would never give keys to the choir director. Keep them with the drama people... I could start a rant on this... but thats for a different thread....

No, I'm not complaining that she wants keys. I am very happy with the fact that she has keys. I'm not complaining about her having keys one bit. My mentioning her wanting and having keys was in response to what was said above. Also, she isn't the director, but that's besides the point.

Also, now that you mention it, I hope that I'm not coming across as king of the booth . I've had a couple in the past and all that it gets you is a crew of people that despise you. I teach everyone everything that they want to know (and I've been told that I've taught them things that they don't want to know either). In the past with the other kings of the booth they didn't teach anyone a thing and if they weren't there, I had little idea for how to work things. I want to make sure that doesn't happen when I'm not doing shows as well as when I graduate.

 

[arik52]

I've been having a similar issue with keys at my high school. We're a student run organization, however, we have four "coaches" who supervise us and teach us how to do these. These adults are responsible for us, and they are the people who have the keys. Currently, I'm Scenery Crewhead, and in charge of the Scenery Crew as well as our space. Because our shop is an open area, we have a tool room and props closet that we lock with all of our power tools and more valuable possessions. Admittedly, those who choose theatre for a profession have to make a living somehow, but my coach is only going to be there one day a week for the next three weeks. The lighting coach, who also has keys, is in a similar situation. The only other person with keys to the tool room is the acting coach, and he only comes four days a week, maximum. Wouldn't it make more sense for the people who are there 100% of the time with the crew, the crewheads, to have the keys? We don't have to use powertools to get work done all of the time, so sometimes we work without coaches there. However, it is impossible to access our materials without keys. The organization does not feel comfortable entrusting keys to the responsible students who step up, apply for, and are selected for leadership positions in the student run organization.

 

[Hughesie]

If anything is ever stolen, the first suspicion is placed on the student with keys. I, used to carry around keys but i realized it wasn't the best idea *insurance companies don't like students* so i returned them.