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Lamp Fixture Problems

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by ship, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Been having lamp/fixture problems lately.

    Expensive Xenon high wattage lamp problems that are under study by the manufacturer as to the cause. They are trying to figure out the problem, even loaned them a lighting fixture so as to test it in the 120/208v world, but they have a system of returns for lamps that must be followed in order to see the lamps needing a looking at. Problem is many of these lamps came directly from a company in France. “Silly American there is no problem with these lamps.” They cite a preliminary lamp specification for the lamp as posted on their website for a lamp rated at 1,000 hours meaning my 600hr lamps are not eligible for return. Problem is first the lamp manufacturer has already approved of returning the lamps, this much less as said, what they cite is the “preliminary” lamp specification for the lamp. Since than the lamp has become rated at 1,500 hours which makes 600 hours well within the 2/3 expected lamp life qualifying for a return. Been months of them thinking about approving the lamp return for lamps that they won’t be paying for once they also return them. Just cannot win on that one and in the mean time I sit on six lamps at around $1K each.

    Not quite as bad overall as the 6 MSI 1800w lamps I have been sitting on for like six years now at over $300.00 each in amount of time sitting on them, or the 6 PXA-44 lamps at like $180.00 each, but those two lamps amongst others have reasonable excuses for me being stuck with them. The first one as a lamp type was at one point going thru one lamp per week in the lighting fixture type before it got upgraded to a completely different lamp - this was a one week supply of them in already having bought 60x of them that last month. The other lamp was there before I got there and all of these types I’m eventually going to sell off for what I can get for them. Years of research and I’m close to what this lamp might work in but not what it was for. On the former lamp in - wee problems, my theory was that +/- 15 degree burn angle to the lamp when used in fixtures mounted to dynamically rigged truss. That was a quick upgrade to a completely different lamp however once those owning the fixtures started burning thru lamps faster than they could be made. Hmm, same burn angle as the above expensive xenon lamp... na, and the mushrooming of the lead in wire on them by way of “the skin effect of cable” doesn’t play a role either. Amazing on them that granted they are hand blown lamps how some can have a tight wire rope between the base pin and monofoil of the lamp, and others can have the lead in stranded wire completely like a mushroom ballooning out within the lamp base. Other brands of lamp used in other fixtures but of the same style don’t have these problems these lamps see. Could be voltage or frequency in the US, could be in initial testing nobody thought these fixtures might not be perfectly level as with the above MSI 1800w lamps, or it could be a resistance caused by the mushrooming of the lead in wire. In the mean time, I have six lamps from one distributer waiting to go back, some lamps from another domestic distributer that did go back, and a dozen or so lamps with mushroomed lead in wires I’m still using that might or might not go bad due to this even if hand blown and in making the lamp fit within a LL lamp length distance at times tolerances need to be taken up by uncoiling the stranded wire to make it fit, such tolerances if expiation are really bad. This much less while told it does not effect the lamp I’m not so sure. TBA the results of the fixture test with the lamps in the US as opposed to in Europe.

    Next lamp in preliminary lamps changing and even specified lamps changing almost every year is a Fast Fit headache I now have. 42 headaches at around $200.00 each in fact. Since 2006 there has been two 1.2Kw Metal Halide Fast Fit lamps on the market, and two other fast fit lamps. Note the huge changes between them in the past few years (below), outright typos - this in addition to (not seen) lack of info that was once published and I carried thru to today’s spec. but is no longer published such as LCL, arc gap, voltage (either spec) or that dependant upon where you are in the Phillips website, some of these lamps don’t exist, some have two completely different part numbers for the exact same lamp and others don’t exist anywhere on the website. How can they produce their standard line drawing of the lamp with arrows for the dimensions below the lamp to be filled out and just leave those boxes blank? This when just two years ago such info was published? This given the lamp base seemingly has also changed in the last two years. Err, lamp base didn’t change, what was written for it did. This much less the typo for output, lamp hours and color temperature changing in a bad way. Me again having carried over a lot of the info from prior years so as to fill in the info that would otherwise be blank spaces. Certainly Phillips knows what info about a lamp is important, just cannot understand why they would not publish such info in as of today just leaving blank what was already published at one point or that you find in one section of the website but not others.

    This all much less given the above 2/3 of lamp life return ratio, I’m now going to have to weed out some lamps I’m attempting to send back for return that given the change no longer qualify for return. Big difference between a lamp life of 750 hours and one of 500 hours - this not just in returns for the price these lamps sell at. This much less dropping of color temperature, CRI and given the luminous output is a typo in one case but in the other a very drastic drop in initial output - very serious drop in output to the point either it’s also a typo of more than a decimal point, or something about the lamp is really useless and inefficient. Hmm, nobody would plop a crappy lamp on a new lamp base and call it a great improvement in lamp technology.

    Below is near as I can figure out the specs of all of these lamp types on the market:
    MSR Gold 700 Fastfit; Philips #15880-8 (2006); CL, HP. SE. MH. SA. HID Fast Fit; 700w/207v ign; T-25mm; 4mm; LCL 65mm; PGJX-50; CRI >80, Any Burn, Dimmable, P-3 tech; 7,500EK; 50,000 Lum; 750hr
    MSR Gold 1200 Fastfit; Phillips #15623-2 (2006); CL, HP. SE. MH. SA. HID Fast Fit; 1.2Kw/207v ign; T-26mm; 5mm; LCL 65mm; PGJX-50; CRI >80, Any Burn, Dimmable, P-3 tech; 6,300EK; 95,000 Lum; 750hr
    MSR Gold 1200 Fastfit; Philips #21098-2 (2008); (#156232) CL, HP. SE. MH. SA. HID Fast Fit, Cold Strike Dimmable; 1.2Kw/207v ign; T-26mm; 5mm; LCL 65mm; PGJX-50; MOL 128mm (CRI 85RA8), Any Burn, x307/y318; 6,000EK; 9,500 Lum; 500hr
    MSR Gold 1200 SA/SE; Phillips #21098-2(2006); (#150524) CL. HP. SE. MH, SA, HID. Fast Fit; 1.2Kw/95v; T-20.9mm; 5mm; LCL 54.3mm; PGJ-50; (CRI 80) Any Burn Pos.; 6,300EK; 95,000 Lum; 500hr
    MSR Gold 1200 SA/SE; Philips #20961-0 (2008); (#150524) CL. HP. SE. MH, SA, HID. Fast Fit Dimmable; 1.2Kw/95v; T-20.9mm; 5mm; LCL 54.3mm; PGJ-41; MOL 109mm (CRI 68RA8) Any Burn Pos. x307/y318; 6,500EK; 61,000 Lum; 500hr
    MSR Gold 2000 Fastfit ; Philips #21340-2 (12/07); CL. HP. SE. MH, SA, HID Fast Fit. ; 2Kw/207v ign; T-26mm; LCL 67mm; PGJX-50; 6,000EK; 165,000 Lum; 750hr

    So this info has been compiled thru four sources. First by Phillips US, second by Phillips UK, third by Phillips E-Catalog, and fourth by my rep for them given a need to know basis but not all info being available still a year or more later. Even with bug hunting, not all info is easy to find or even on the website long after the lamps came to market. Hmm, the MSR Gold 1200 Fast Fit lamp is in one section, the MSR Gold 1200 SA/SE which is also a Fast Fit lamp in a completely different section of at least the UK website but not even existing in others. Given today was the first time I was ever able to even confirm that there is two 1.2Kw Fast fist lamps existing, I had thought before now that both lamps were one - just renamed. Goes along with the MSI 1200w/S that while still exists, became upgraded for main production the MSR 1200w/S, than the MSR Gold 1200SA/DE. This in addition to part numbers that frequently change as upgrades are made common to all brands. This granted most companies have unified part numbers so that say the MSR Gold 1200SA/SE in the UK is not 21098-2 but 15052-4 in the US. Do a search for “Fast Fit” and you cannot even pull up all if even any lamps. So I thought both lamps given typos - especially with early info on a lamp was leading me to the same lamp under a different name and bought heavily into them so as to supply shows with them. Had to even wait long lead times and pay overnight shipping to get them on time at times.

    Turns out there really is two lamps and the lamp base on the second SA/SE lamp is a completely different size than specified originally in the product leaflets - a fifth source of info about lamps frequently also wishful thinking until the lamp has been out a few years. I found this out last Friday for sure there was really two completely different lamps - this long after combining the two into my lamp tracking as one so as now to have a totally messed up lamp tracking system for them. Missing 10x of these lamps even - probably on a boat back from Japan at the moment, good thing that show didn’t need their spares.

    Handed a lamp to a tech person, he came back saying it would not fit. Hmm, Coemar Infinity Wash... says it should fit, even checked the website. Says MSR Gold 1200SA/SE Fast Fit lamp on the website for the specified lamp. Even bought a few lamps from them and they all fit - they happened not to say SA/SE on the box but again the concept of the name change such as HMI 1200w/S now HMI 1200w/D7/60 gets done at times. Given that lamp description from the website, I bought a bulk of that lamp thru another supplier I’m now stuck with for the moment. (My relations with Phillips at the moment are at a low at the moment - long and different story.) Turns out the MSR Gold 1200 Fast fit was the actual lamp that fits the fixture and the Coemar website is providing incorrect information. VeraLite also has incorrect info on the VL-500D lamp I find tonight but at least did not make the mistake over. Like lamp manufacturers.. Just don’t get how the manufacturer makes such typos, than lets them linger.

    The MSR Gold 1200SA/SE fits in a I-Spot Extreme, the MSR Gold 1200 Fast Fit fits in a Infinity Wash XL and Robe 2500 amongst other fixtures in being the more standardized lamp to the industry at this point. I can see that given the lamp specs. Even tried tonight attempted to solve my lamp problem with having our fixture buyer buy some I-Spots so I would have some use of the lamps. He will be right on that problem. In the mean time, why two different but the same lamps I cannot figure out.
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2008

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