seansbar
Member
Good thing there is only 30, otherwise it may be a baked egg.
Although with the scaffolding I've seen recently, maybe they are trying to crack it open?
Large PAR (46/56/64) lamps
- Thread starterDELO72
- Start date
Although with the scaffolding I've seen recently, maybe they are trying to crack it open?
I have no knowledge other than I was not sold any and possiblly none were sold. What brand of lamps did you buy, and yes of Osram, see if old stock or subject to the hold on sales or what might be a recall for details. Your fixture safety screen is there to prevent any life threatening injury, if you have reall old cans without them... you are primary liable I would think because even older lamps fail - been interesting posts about them. After that if small glass particles of the case of a lamp explosion from a known to be bad lamp - if in hold for that reason... If sold before the hold/recall, Osram is liable. If sold after the hold/recall who sold it to you is liable.
All that said, there had been a huge stock of pre-Corning discontination of lamps on the market. If other than an Osram brand, you are absolutely fine with the lamps as per normal. If Osram, should contact your vendor to see which lot of lamps they are. If old stock made by GE/Corning, the lamp should operate as expected. I do not know why Osram did the hold on their lamps, and discontinued production, but it was possibly just that the filament didn't hold up.
All that said, there had been a huge stock of pre-Corning discontination of lamps on the market. If other than an Osram brand, you are absolutely fine with the lamps as per normal. If Osram, should contact your vendor to see which lot of lamps they are. If old stock made by GE/Corning, the lamp should operate as expected. I do not know why Osram did the hold on their lamps, and discontinued production, but it was possibly just that the filament didn't hold up.
So how about these from Techni-lux.
Available soon and made in the USA.
Available soon and made in the USA.
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DELO72
Well-Known Member
@DELO72 , So the FEL should continue to be the bane of @derekleffew ‘s existence for the foreseeable future?
DELO72
Well-Known Member
Yes, but why would he want them to be? FELs are big heaters. I'd (personally) switch over to using GLD's instead. 750W 115V with a MUCH more robust filament design, higher CCT (115V vs. 120V), same 300 hr. lifetime, and almost as much lumens (probably as much USABLE lumens due to the smaller Coil Box of the filament). I personally HATE the filament design of the CC8 (FLK, FEL, EHD, EHG, etc.) lamps because they have those two really sharp angles on the top and bottom supporting the filament, and they tend to break easier as a result when bumped than C13D filament designs (GLC, GLA, BTL, GLD, GLE, etc.) which are more built like springs on a trampoline, with lots of little supports instead of one big support. Just my personal preference as a former ME/LD.
Derek likes them because they are what they are, as with asbestos wiring. Believe at some point the FEL was a solution Especially for Lekos to a lighting industry not solving the problems of needing more light - this even if bulk of light for it wasted and it destroyed lights while in use. Respect your elders for what they can share with you, and or what pain they can make you have to deal with in learning short of their experience on site or some day when you are the elder. Joking half cheeked but Derek while I don't understand some of the things he stands for, is my elder and his experience in why is from a base of knowledge. I might go another way, but I do want to research why he feels that way, this before his represitation for an elder generation goes away. His generation was trained by elders from another, and before one more for modern lighting. Next my and Mark's generation.
So came up tonight off line in 3.5Q5 Leko restoration project discussion, what's the best lamp for a gobo one one? Assuming Robert Altman personally sent me an origional Thorn HX-600 lamp... back in like 93' with my repair parts to a 3.5Q5, (long story in snail mails and the Shakespere development in parts), and he was not worried about lack of UL listing in using them during phone call to me in my dorm room - catching me a college punk student there. Assuming nobody that has to be compliant with the UL tested listing of the my favorite 3.5Q5 in getting re-tested... (similar to a FEL in a 360Q fixture - known to work but burn up components.)
Mark, is there a unofficially speaking the GLC or HPR (I have a stash of) best lamp for a 3.5Q5 (In a not listed way, not advised by way of listing concept for lamp with a gobo? R&D wise a best lamp?) Or did you ever figure out how to fit a HPL filament into these lamps?
I'll stop joking about someone figuring out the liquid cooled version of this halogen lamp some day. Though isn't there some form of liquid cooled xenon lamps in service pointed out which you always explain why not for halogen? (again now.)
In same discussion, about how in going RGB LED, how flattening and less vibrant or CRI a shame it is in from say 36+ fixtures to light from a bar before, one now only needs 12 to do the same.
Lighting design is changing a lot, yet a fear for many medium budget thateres/churches, the cost of the LED makes for worse lighting. My very personal advice, add the LED's yes, but keep around the rest of your lights - Leko's and PARs' and Fresnels in perhaps supplemental lighting. Don't yet trash your dimmers, intrigrade while supplementing. Might cost more to leave in place what you have and add to it. Than add to it again etc. in not getting rid of all but supplementing in the key lights and others more and more replaced as supplemental. Get some with budget actual LED Leko's as the LED PAR just doesn't do what the PAR flat wash done and gone does.
My fear is the science of lighting design for mid to lower theaters and churches is by way of this new technology becoming downgraded in the artistic elements of it. A more efficient halogen lamp.. liquid cooled halgen lamp. Not a dumb idea in furtherance of either efficiency in concept to compete with LED, and sustain current stock, and a concern that simple solutions in lighting are not the best for design in regression. For my day, I remember statements from the managers, about removing all the Leko's and just installing PAR fixtures. That for the most part fell thru, I hope the LED replacement is beneficial and supplemental rather than damage to art.
So came up tonight off line in 3.5Q5 Leko restoration project discussion, what's the best lamp for a gobo one one? Assuming Robert Altman personally sent me an origional Thorn HX-600 lamp... back in like 93' with my repair parts to a 3.5Q5, (long story in snail mails and the Shakespere development in parts), and he was not worried about lack of UL listing in using them during phone call to me in my dorm room - catching me a college punk student there. Assuming nobody that has to be compliant with the UL tested listing of the my favorite 3.5Q5 in getting re-tested... (similar to a FEL in a 360Q fixture - known to work but burn up components.)
Mark, is there a unofficially speaking the GLC or HPR (I have a stash of) best lamp for a 3.5Q5 (In a not listed way, not advised by way of listing concept for lamp with a gobo? R&D wise a best lamp?) Or did you ever figure out how to fit a HPL filament into these lamps?
I'll stop joking about someone figuring out the liquid cooled version of this halogen lamp some day. Though isn't there some form of liquid cooled xenon lamps in service pointed out which you always explain why not for halogen? (again now.)
In same discussion, about how in going RGB LED, how flattening and less vibrant or CRI a shame it is in from say 36+ fixtures to light from a bar before, one now only needs 12 to do the same.
Lighting design is changing a lot, yet a fear for many medium budget thateres/churches, the cost of the LED makes for worse lighting. My very personal advice, add the LED's yes, but keep around the rest of your lights - Leko's and PARs' and Fresnels in perhaps supplemental lighting. Don't yet trash your dimmers, intrigrade while supplementing. Might cost more to leave in place what you have and add to it. Than add to it again etc. in not getting rid of all but supplementing in the key lights and others more and more replaced as supplemental. Get some with budget actual LED Leko's as the LED PAR just doesn't do what the PAR flat wash done and gone does.
My fear is the science of lighting design for mid to lower theaters and churches is by way of this new technology becoming downgraded in the artistic elements of it. A more efficient halogen lamp.. liquid cooled halgen lamp. Not a dumb idea in furtherance of either efficiency in concept to compete with LED, and sustain current stock, and a concern that simple solutions in lighting are not the best for design in regression. For my day, I remember statements from the managers, about removing all the Leko's and just installing PAR fixtures. That for the most part fell thru, I hope the LED replacement is beneficial and supplemental rather than damage to art.
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techieman33
Well-Known Member
We still use FELs in our old strand stuff. I've tried GLDs in a few lights and we get less output from them. Maybe 30 years ago when the lights were new it would be a different story. But over time the inefficient optics have only gotten more so. Warped reflectors, damaged coating on reflectors, etc. Then add in the problem of only seeing 106v-110v on most of our dimmer circuits at full. It's great for lamp life, but terrible for total output. In the end the damage is done and we just have to do what we can to eek as much performance out of them as possible.
As for cooling I'm not sure if that would work. My understanding was that halogen lamps burning hotter than a standard incandescent is what made them more efficient. As a result the filament is burning off faster, but then the halogen gas helps to deposit the tungsten back onto the filament instead of the inside of the envelope. And for that cycle to work the lamp needs to get hot.
As for cooling I'm not sure if that would work. My understanding was that halogen lamps burning hotter than a standard incandescent is what made them more efficient. As a result the filament is burning off faster, but then the halogen gas helps to deposit the tungsten back onto the filament instead of the inside of the envelope. And for that cycle to work the lamp needs to get hot.
Westinghouse's 750T12/9 lamps were the best!
TE, heard the observation on the FEL brighter, this even with a less efficient filament working better than a modern GLD lamp before. Similar to my observation that the 3.5Q5 with a HPR lamp out punched a S4 575. In your case if up for trying, you could try a Philips #6981P, or #6982P (Same part number Philips #13420-5), they have more output than a GLD and smaller filament.
Point source of light obviously part of the key to to reflected light, but than of course my ColorTran and Kliegl #1340's bench focus in an elipsoidal reflector just fine - even with 50w lamps - more modern and lower wattage than spec. The long filament RSC cc-8 based fixture reflectors perhaps were designed for their lamps. Perhaps - though you cannot tell a slight bend or something to the ellipse... perhaps it compensates for that larger filament / these filaments.... in an age before computer drafting.
Halogen vs. Incandescent... yes that is a factor as with cooling, but mostly the robust earlier designs will or will not take the heat. Mostly will when wired modern and maintained, but depends on situation. 6" Fresnels of all ages since the 1930's have never had a problem with halogen upgrades other than in wiring and maintaining.
Point source of light obviously part of the key to to reflected light, but than of course my ColorTran and Kliegl #1340's bench focus in an elipsoidal reflector just fine - even with 50w lamps - more modern and lower wattage than spec. The long filament RSC cc-8 based fixture reflectors perhaps were designed for their lamps. Perhaps - though you cannot tell a slight bend or something to the ellipse... perhaps it compensates for that larger filament / these filaments.... in an age before computer drafting.
Halogen vs. Incandescent... yes that is a factor as with cooling, but mostly the robust earlier designs will or will not take the heat. Mostly will when wired modern and maintained, but depends on situation. 6" Fresnels of all ages since the 1930's have never had a problem with halogen upgrades other than in wiring and maintaining.
Derek I have no specs on the 750T12/9. Suspect it was a P-28s lamp similar to the BFE or DTJ? You and Clyde our friend amongst others were/are of an amazing generation and mentours to me and all on the forum - continued. Your generation made magic to apriciate in making great changes to modern design, the movie "West Side Story" was done with your generation of advencements in design done Leko's and similar gear as an example.
And you were trained by people with background in the PC spot age, them trained by at best carbon arc age, so much new technology - with bleed in probably your cross training in ancient to us fixtures. Your memories of the 750T12/9 are romantic but important. Was it sufficient light for what you needed? Did it make art in the day? Yes! Think of how many mainstay plays or musicals came out while you were working with, still vibrant in our industry for a bulk of them.
My point... do you know DMX coding better than I, and or LED tech current in use better than I... Yes! Amazing the amount of tech change you have seen. Still you hold onto 750T12/9. That out of respect given the norm for modern... that must have been some lamp. Will keep in mind and send you any I might have.
Still though... some old modes or wiring you hold onto amazing you will not cut. When the visit my Friend?
And you were trained by people with background in the PC spot age, them trained by at best carbon arc age, so much new technology - with bleed in probably your cross training in ancient to us fixtures. Your memories of the 750T12/9 are romantic but important. Was it sufficient light for what you needed? Did it make art in the day? Yes! Think of how many mainstay plays or musicals came out while you were working with, still vibrant in our industry for a bulk of them.
My point... do you know DMX coding better than I, and or LED tech current in use better than I... Yes! Amazing the amount of tech change you have seen. Still you hold onto 750T12/9. That out of respect given the norm for modern... that must have been some lamp. Will keep in mind and send you any I might have.
Still though... some old modes or wiring you hold onto amazing you will not cut. When the visit my Friend?
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Strand-Century and others "solved" this beginning in the late 1960s first with flatted, then double-flatted reflectors. The ellipsoid is made of may squarish planar facets, each positioned to reflect the filament through the same point in the gate.
There's lots of volume inside a Fresnel and the spherical reflector isn't very good at reflecting all of the light. Whereas in an ellipsoid, light, heat, and sound are all reflected save for the void of the hole in the reflector.
I give you the 1975-ish fixture using a hybrid PARAbolic, ELLipspheric, SPHeric reflector, the Electro-Controls Parellipshere.
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750T12/9. Non-T/H version of the EGG or DNT. Standard "Leko" lamp back in the day. Worked fine with Roscolene and Cinemoid.
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Caught my easy point on the Fresnel in making a concept point - good job, but vaiid in not too many reflectors burning up.
But fascinated by your reply in history of how they were designed I only suspected, cool thanks you knew all that off hand. And now the world knows how/why.
On my get list the Parellesphere (Philisphere?) as with a Patt 23. I have a Daughter and bills and no longer am spending money on E-Bay stocking the museum.
Again old guy.. friend, when are you coming to visit and help identify some lights?
But fascinated by your reply in history of how they were designed I only suspected, cool thanks you knew all that off hand. And now the world knows how/why.
On my get list the Parellesphere (Philisphere?) as with a Patt 23. I have a Daughter and bills and no longer am spending money on E-Bay stocking the museum.
Again old guy.. friend, when are you coming to visit and help identify some lights?
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
If you want to pay the shipping ill GIVE you a Patt 23 and Patt 123. Got lots. Parellepsheres are harder to find now though... That last theatre I know that had some still was the Blyth Festival Theatre, and they got rid of theirs a year or two ago (sold for scrap). They were really great lights really however they are HEAVY and LARGE.
bosox242
Member
At my old venue they may still have some Parellipsphere's in storage (if they didn't finally scrap them). I believe I also found the brochure and maybe even a letter from the company they bought them from.
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KRISTOF LEOPOLD
Member
country of origin "China", not made in the US
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