Las Vegas - Mandalay Bay Shooting

[JD]

I do have to point out that there is more to this than gun control, remember the Oklahoma City Bombing. Evil is evil and crazy is crazy.

Yes, in Paris it was a simple truck that was turned into a weapon of mass killing. On 911, box-cutters were used to kill 3000. Evil has a way of finding a method. This guy was obsessive in his planning, he would used whatever tool worked. Every time we think we have an answer, evil finds a way around it.

 

[Van]

I for one do NOT want to see this devolve into a "gun freaks Vs. anti-gun Freaks" screaming match. However I feel it needs to be crystal clear to everyone:
The guy in Vegas did NOT use a truck. He used Firearms, he used legally-modified firearms, he didn't use a box cutter, he didn't use a truck, he didn't use Sarin Gas, he didn't use Anthrax. He used Firearms, Suppressors, Bump-stocks and was prepared to do even more with easily obtainable/create-able explosives. No, You will never stop crazy from doing crazy.

 

[Footer]

I do have to point out that there is more to this than gun control, remember the Oklahoma City Bombing. Evil is evil and crazy is crazy.

And after that attack streets were closed near high profile targets. Jersey barriers went up everywhere. Additionally they made it nearly impossible to buy that level of fertilizer without the proper paperwork.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

And after that attack streets were closed near high profile targets. Jersey barriers went up everywhere. Additionally they made it nearly impossible to buy that level of fertilizer without the proper paperwork.

Exactly.

 

[ruinexplorer]

On 911, box-cutters were used to kill 3000. Evil has a way of finding a method. This guy was obsessive in his planning, he would used whatever tool worked. Every time we think we have an answer, evil finds a way around it.

On 9/11, airplanes were used to kill, not box cutters. Box cutters were used to take over those planes. There was no resistance due to policies set in place for hostage takeovers. If those policies were not in place, it could have been different. And, to top it off, it isn't just the passengers who met changes after that, but the crews as well. This is why we need reasonable discussions, not just pro-gun or the thought of anti-gun. Over and over, the public cries out for changes, but lobbying money and misinformation kill it every time.

Since change is unlikely to happen to limit guns/ammo from these type of people, it is on us as a community to figure means to cope with it. We already have pretty ample security keeping the crap out of the events, but are these policies really effective? We need to make sure that we provide means of crowd control (keeping them in and safe or providing ample means of exit).

 

[gafftaper]

Although I agree with many of the feelings expressed, I don't think this is the place to have a gun debate. Contact your representatives and tell them how you feel. Support organizations that represent you and lobby for what you believe. Get involved and don't let this fade from memory without doing anything. I truly believe if enough people get involved (and we force the traditional powers that be to work together instead of just yelling past each other) we can find ways to make ourselves safer and keep the 2nd amendment.

Until there is or isn't change, let's make CB the place where we keep theater's safe.

I started a discussion HERE in the Stage Management and Facility Operations forum to discuss what you are doing to re-evaluate and make your theater safer in an active shooter situation. Let's share ideas and support each other.

 

[FMEng]

NPR did a thoughtful story on concert security.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...ity-experts-grapple-with-lessons-of-las-vegas

I'm no expert, but I could argue that lighting up the scene might have aided the shooter. Marking the exits seems like a good idea, as does instructions to the crowd. Codes require plentiful, marked exits indoors. It seems like that should be the case in outdoor venues too.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

NPR did a thoughtful story on concert security.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thereco...ity-experts-grapple-with-lessons-of-las-vegas

I'm no expert, but I could argue that lighting up the scene might have aided the shooter. Marking the exits seems like a good idea, as does instructions to the crowd. Codes require plentiful, marked exits indoors. It seems like that should be the case in outdoor venues too.

I do not believe outdoor assembly occupancies are exempt from marking means of egress. Like you, I suspect a number of building officials and authorities having jurisdiction might not realize that. On the other hand, I'm not sure an empty lot ever has plans to be reviewed for a permit. So, the gap is perhaps for the "unbuilt" facilities - those where people just assemble around temporary stages, RVs, and portapotties. Like the warehouse fire in Oakland - codes don't work so well when owners try to hide what they are doing. Building officials are not really law enforcement officers but maybe they should be - with training and small arms - they could go out and hunt for people trying to break the law. (I don't really think we should arm our building officials but its an option.)

 

[Tom Andrews]

In New York City, at least, outdoor events in empty lots or parking lots need to apply for and receive permits. Everything for an indoor event applies, plus more such as fire truck and ambulance access, egress, capacity per 'area' dependent on enclosures like fencing, etc. The codes and requirements are there, and I agree there should be more enforcement.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Building permits and permits for an event are pretty different. Buildings gave registered design professionals involved with planning. Im not sure a concert on a vacant lot does.

 

[Footer]

Building permits and permits for an event are pretty different. Buildings gave registered design professionals involved with planning. Im not sure a concert on a vacant lot does.

They do around here. Anytime you are setting up an area of assembly that involves gated access our AHJ looks at it the same way as a confined building.

 

[ruinexplorer]

As that lot is used on a regular basis, I have no doubt that it has well defined means of egress. However, when someone is shooting at you, that changes things quite a bit.

The decision to throw on lights to help get people out was in my opinion the right thing to do. It isn't just the exits that need to be lit in these circumstances, but everything that might be in the way to them (dropped items, those caring for the wounded, etc.). These are things that need to be considered when coming up with a plan. Assume that some of the regular means of egress will no longer be accessible and make sure that there is direction to alternate exits and have a means of directing people to them as the audience needs to know before heading for the wrong exit.

 

[FMEng]

The decision to throw on lights to help get people out was in my opinion the right thing to do. It isn't just the exits that need to be lit in these circumstances, but everything that might be in the way to them (dropped items, those caring for the wounded, etc.). These are things that need to be considered when coming up with a plan. Assume that some of the regular means of egress will no longer be accessible and make sure that there is direction to alternate exits and have a means of directing people to them as the audience needs to know before heading for the wrong exit.

According to the expert quoted in the NPR story, the lights were off after the band flees the stage. No instructions were given to the crowd.