LD Needed

[derekleffew]

A similar, yet different, scenario:

... I will relate this to a friend of mine in college. He was an Eagle Scout but refused to put it on his resume'. The reason he gave was that there are many people in the theatre community who are gay and the boy scouts have the stigma they are anti-gay. He was proud that he had achieved eagle scout but would not put it on his resume' because he was concerned of the chance of being thrown out because of that association.

Can the NAACP refuse to hire a Caucasian applicant?
Can the AARP refuse to hire an applicant under fifty?
Can British Petroleum refuse to hire an environmentalist?

 

[cprted]

A similar, yet different, scenario:

Can the NAACP refuse to hire a Caucasian applicant?
Can the AARP refuse to hire an applicant under fifty?
Can British Petroleum refuse to hire an environmentalist?

There is no constitutional right to be hired by anyone. There is also no law that says a company must hire the most qualified applicant for a particular job. You don't need a reason not to hire someone.

As to the requirement of this job posting to join the Church in question, recognized religious institutions are exempt from anti-discrimination laws as part of the freedom of religion guaranteed by the First Amendment.

 

[Edrick]

We'll see how long that lasts if it was ever challenged. Regardless they shouldn't be discriminating against people who don't want to become an actual member of the church. Also as far as not needing a reason to hire someone, you can in fact be sued for not hiring someone based off of things like that. How is that any different than not hiring someone because of their race? You're not hiring them because of their choice of religion. Which as you mentioned already freedom of religion.

 

[LekoBoy]

Well, on the Gilmore Girls, Rory had to join the DAR before she could work in the office there.

 

[erosing]

We'll see how long that lasts if it was ever challenged. Regardless they shouldn't be discriminating against people who don't want to become an actual member of the church. Also as far as not needing a reason to hire someone, you can in fact be sued for not hiring someone based off of things like that. How is that any different than not hiring someone because of their race? You're not hiring them because of their choice of religion. Which as you mentioned already freedom of religion.

I'm not sure if this is a point you're missing or that you're ignoring, but the group wants to hire someone that can help plan their worship ceremonies and design around them, not just design their lighting. If you don't have a background in their religion, what good are you to them in helping plan their ceremonies? They want someone with that background, they don't just want a designer.

 

[Footer]

We'll see how long that lasts if it was ever challenged. Regardless they shouldn't be discriminating against people who don't want to become an actual member of the church. Also as far as not needing a reason to hire someone, you can in fact be sued for not hiring someone based off of things like that. How is that any different than not hiring someone because of their race? You're not hiring them because of their choice of religion. Which as you mentioned already freedom of religion.

.....The army can let someone go because they are gay......

If you would not want to become a member of the church this would not be the job for you. If you don't like children, you wouldn't work for a children's theatre. The last place an anti-evangelical or atheist should ever be is working for a mega church. It really is a none issue. If you were not fully bought into the job and what all it brings, you would be completely miserable at the gig.

 

[Edrick]

Well I'm not anti-evangelical or atheist nor do I hate children. My point is that churches routinely discriminate against people who are not part of their religion for many things (including a lighting designer). As far as the reasoning goes I don't see why a lighting designer can't plan around something religious. I don't get how you need to be religious to plan a lighting design. My issue isn't with wether or not the person they hire is religious it's about the fact that they require the person to join THEIR specific congregation. You shouldn't be forced to join something extra just to work there. Any who it was just a question I had about it not a debate.

 

[cprted]

Also as far as not needing a reason to hire someone, you can in fact be sued for not hiring someone based off of things like that.

You're right. I can't decide not to hire Bob because he is white/black/gay/whatever, but I can not hire Bob because I felt one of the other candidates was a better fit or more qualified to work for me. Even if Bob was the only applicant for the position I posted, I can still decide not to hire him just because. Bob doesn't have a constitutional right to work for me.

How is that any different than not hiring someone because of their race? You're not hiring them because of their choice of religion. Which as you mentioned already freedom of religion.

I agree with all of Footer's points.

 

[Edrick]

Well as I said I wasn't here to make a big discussion about it was just simply questioning wether or not it's a valid reason to not hire someone. Some people will agree it is, some wont.

Wish them the best of luck though in finding a candidate and luck to any CB members who apply.

 

[Tex]

My issue isn't with wether or not the person they hire is religious it's about the fact that they require the person to join THEIR specific congregation. You shouldn't be forced to join something extra just to work there.

How about the pastor? Should he be required to join? He's hired by the congregation just like the LD...

 

[Edrick]

Like I said the discussion can be dropped. A pastor is a leader, he's there to preach the word about god. As such he needs to know that stuff. A lighting designer however does not need to be a member of a specific church or religion. As long as the candidate is willing, sociable, and a good person the church should have no issue. So the comparison of a pastor and a lighting designer is useless. I don't know how many film sets I've seen where the requirement to be a christian has been brought up and thus they turn down many other willing and able candidates because they believe only a true christian can do the work. For future jobs however I'll only hire Atheists we'll see how that goes over

This argument however will go nowhere on here so as such.

 

[shiben]

It really is a none issue. If you were not fully bought into the job and what all it brings, you would be completely miserable at the gig.

I agree. As an atheist, and someone who has worked at churches in a design capacity before, and also as someone who comes from a background of religion, working at a church for someone who does not adhere to their beliefs can be a true pain. I am perfectly willing to design a rig for a church, or do a one-off concert for them, but would never take a job as a LD full time. Even if it is illegal to discriminate, honestly, its not the place for someone who doesnt believe in whatever the church they are working for believes. I attend and work for a christian college. It is unbelievably difficult at times to deal with that discrepancy for me, and working full time, it would just be impossible if I were not able to only do theatre work. In fact, I had to quit my other job that involved designing/running worship services because I could no longer be honest as a designer for them. As a designer, you tend to have input on how things run, and that leads to having some part of yourself, even if its just the art you produce, put into whatever your doing. Making art for something you dont agree with once is tough. Doing it every day would be horrific.

 

[Tex]

Like I said the discussion can be dropped. A pastor is a leader, he's there to preach the word about god. As such he needs to know that stuff. A lighting designer however does not need to be a member of a specific church or religion. As long as the candidate is willing, sociable, and a good person the church should have no issue. So the comparison of a pastor and a lighting designer is useless. I don't know how many film sets I've seen where the requirement to be a christian has been brought up and thus they turn down many other willing and able candidates because they believe only a true christian can do the work. For future jobs however I'll only hire Atheists we'll see how that goes over

This argument however will go nowhere on here so as such.

Yes, the jobs they do are very different, but they are both employees of the church and the qualifications for those jobs are set by the church. That is their right; just as it's your right to hire all atheists for a production.
If you really wanted to drop the discussion as you say in the first sentence of your post, why did you continue for another two paragraphs?

 

[Les]

My point is that churches routinely discriminate against people who are not part of their religion for many things (including a lighting designer). As far as the reasoning goes I don't see why a lighting designer can't plan around something religious. I don't get how you need to be religious to plan a lighting design.

Because you are LEADING volunteers who are there to serve God through doing technical work for the church, that's why. What good is a church leader if they aren't a member of the church they are leading in and/or don't share their views and religious beliefs?? Lighting design for a church is different than lighting design for theatre. It's all about serving God.

As has been said MANY times before, this is more than a lighting gig. This is a fellowship gig, which happens to be facilitated through the use of lighting. Fellowship means being a part of their group. Being part of their group means becoming a member.

 

[Edrick]

Like I said this is pointless arguing with religious people I made my point end of story you made yours. We have different views many people would agree with me and people agree with you. I'm not here for hostilaty. So I bid you adue.

 

[DaveySimps]

Let's leave it at that shall we? That is not exactly what the Classified Forum was intended for.

~Dave

 

[Pie4Weebl]

So guyz I wanted to work for PETA and I went to interview with them and it was right at lunch time to I stopped off at KFC and brought it with me to the interview, and now they don't want to hire me, I even offered the guy some chicken, idk what their deal is.

 

[Edrick]

Edit -Not Worth It