LED Conversion Upcoming

[MNicolai]

That new Ovation variable white is a good choice. I was pretty impressed with it. It's a much more natural white than the E-910FC, but still hits a lot of the individual colors you would want -- just not as brightly as the E910-FC will.

To-date, the only issues I've noticed with the E910-FC and E930-VW is that if you're going to use gobos, you want to focus either with a single emitter color on or a mix, whichever is representative of how the fixture will be used.

If you focus sharp with a single-emitter color on, it'll go fuzzy when you add other colors. Vise versa if you focus sharp with multiple emitter colors on and go to a single emitter color.


E930-VW on the left. E910-FC on the right.

Focused white multiple emitters on, then reduced down to a single emitter type. Mind you, these were taken on my phone but nonetheless I would consider them representative of what I saw in person.

 

[sdauditorium]

Thanks all. I should have edited my post to say that I'm debating between Altman and the Chauvet's (E-910FC). I've read some of the concerns about Altmans and conversely good things about the 910s, so that was my prime candidate for a shootout. We can get either one for roughly the same price (PHX RGBW v. E-910FC). As much as I'd like to go with the Series 2 Lustr, we'd only be able to get roughly 60 fixtures, including EDLTs, compared to 90 of either the Chauvets or Altmans.

 

[sdauditorium]

Go for the Oz over the Roxey, imho.

Thanks; didn't even realize that was out until I checked their website. I did ask for a rough budgetary price from one vendor, so we'll see how much more that would be compared to the Roxie and if it ship dates would work within our timeline.

 

[jtweigandt]

A word of warning, last I heard (which was a while ago), the Altman Phx has terrible color fringing, so be sure to look out for that and try a few different angles and a selection

We have 6 of the Altman phoenix 250's RGBA Did a side by side evaluation before purchase against our conventional ETC source4 with 575 bulb. We set up off white flats center stage, and shuttered the instruments for a left right comparison. Put a medium to light amber in the source 4, and color matched on the phoenix. The phoenix at about 1/3 matched the source 4 at full. Deeper colors.. no contest. Conventional couldn't touch them. the saturation and brightness of the phoenix was a heck of a lot of fun. I used one for the moon in cats, and we have used them with counter rotating gobos for water.. on a black curtain! The drowning prince was being flown/swam out by the little Mermaid. The effect was breathtaking with an intense tight top light on the pair. Cant say that color fringing was an issue for me. 5 of them completely changed our grand curtain color from blue to Red for the Annie preshow wash.

We have a lot of source 4's around, and I really like the fact that the lens tubes are interchangeble with the source4.

 

[sdauditorium]

That new Ovation variable white is a good choice. I was pretty impressed with it. It's a much more natural white than the E-910FC, but still hits a lot of the individual colors you would want -- just not as brightly as the E910-FC will.

To-date, the only issues I've noticed with the E910-FC and E930-VW is that if you're going to use gobos, you want to focus either with a single emitter color on or a mix, whichever is representative of how the fixture will be used.

If you focus sharp with a single-emitter color on, it'll go fuzzy when you add other colors. Vise versa if you focus sharp with multiple emitter colors on and go to a single emitter color.


E930-VW on the left. E910-FC on the right.

View attachment 15895


Focused white multiple emitters on, then reduced down to a single emitter type. Mind you, these were taken on my phone but nonetheless I would consider them representative of what I saw in person.

View attachment 15896


View attachment 15897

Thanks for that comparison. I'm loving the new VW fixture as my main concern if we went Chauvet and the 910FC was a lack of a strong white, but this seems to satisfy that issue.

 

[sdauditorium]

Just an update: I had a phone meeting with McKinstry's project manager and construction manager this past Wednesday, and they were agreeable to letting me spec the fixture package and putting that to bid following some fixture demos that we'll be bringing in soon. For better or worse, it sounds like they do want to stick with the dimmer rack upgrades instead of retrofits - which will include a Sensor IQ 48 rack for stage lighting and Unison rack with Echo Controller for architectural fixtures (along with relays, etc.).

For fixtures, it looks like we'll have a relatively healthy budget at around $285K, so I've been preparing a few different package options dependent upon demos.

 

[sdauditorium]

Here are the three packages I'm looking at, all the same rough price (also included in all are PowerCON thru cables, DMX cable and terminators, ETC Nomad with 6K outputs and an upgrade for our Ion). I have not listed work lights, house lights, etc. My biggest debate is if I go with a few less, more expensive Series 2 Lustrs. Thoughts? Demos will decide all and are coming up, but just curious to hear what others think.

#1 - 168 total fixtures
Chauvet Professional Ovation E-930VW (and lens tubes) - 85
Chauvet Professional Rogue R2 Wash - 14
Chauvet Professional Maverick MK2 Spot - 6
Chauvet Professional Maverick MK2 Profile - 4
ETC Colorsource Cyc - 16
Altman UV 705 - 2
Chroma-Q Color Force II 12" RGBA - 20
ETC Desire D60 Vivid (w/ lenses) - 18
Elation Protron 3K Strobe - 3
Robert Juliat Roxie Cool White LED Followspot w/ tripod stand - 2

#2 - 169 total fixtures
Altman PHX 250W LED Profile, RGBW - 55 (FOH throws)
Altman PHX 250W LED Profile, RGBA - 30 (on-stage/booms)
Chauvet Rogue R2 Wash - 14
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Spot - 7
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Profile - 4
ETC Colorsource Cyc - 16
Altman UV 705 - 2
Chroma-Q Color Force II 12" RGBA - 20
ETC Desire D60 Vivid - 18
Elation Protron 3K Strobe - 3

#3 - 136 total fixtures
ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Lustr w/ Shutter Barrel (and EDLTs) - 80
Chauvet Rogue R2 Wash - 9
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Spot - 6
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Profile - 2
ETC Desire D60 Vivid - 18
ETC ColorSource Cyc - 16
Altman UV 705 - 2
Elation Protron 3K Color LED Strobe - 3
Robert Juliat Roxie Cool White LED Followspot w/ tripod stand - 2

 

[epimetheus]

Was it intentional to leave the follow spots out of package #2 and the Color Force out of package #3?

 

[sdauditorium]

Was it intentional to leave the follow spots out of package #2 and the Color Force out of package #3?

Yes and no. The follow spots are also included within package #2; however, to hit our fixture budget with the higher cost of the Series 2, I had to cut out the Color Forces. However, as I've been re-working things over the weekend, I've narrowed it down to two packages:

Package 1:
ETC Source Four LED Series 2 - Lustr w/ Shutter Barrel - 70 (and about 75 assorted EDLTs)
Chauvet Rogue R2 Wash - 13
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Spot - 7
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Profile - 2
ETC Desire D60 Vivid - 18 (and 45 deg. lenses)
ETC ColorSource Cyc - 16
Altman UV 705 - 2
Chroma-Q Color Force II 12" RGBA - 13
Robert Juliat Roxie Cool White LED Followspot w/ tripod stand - 2
SSRC 150w Cool Worklight - 20
ETC Nomad w/ 6144 outputs - 1
ETC Ion Output Upgrade - 1
*and a ton of DMX, terminators, PowerCON thru cable, etc.

Package 2:
Altman PHX 250W LED Profile, RGBW - 55
Altman PHX 250W LED Profile, RGBA - 30
Chauvet Rogue R2 Wash - 14
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Spot - 7
Chauvet Maverick MK2 Profile - 4
ETC Colorsource Cyc - 16
Altman UV 705 - 2
Chroma-Q Color Force II 12" RGBA - 22
ETC Desire D60 Vivid - 18
Robert Juliat Roxie Cool White LED Followspot w/ tripod stand - 2
ETC Ion Output Upgrade - 1
ETC Nomad w/ 6144 outputs - 1
SSRC 150w Cool Worklight - 20
*and a ton of DMX, terminators, PowerCON thru cable, etc.

 

[sdauditorium]

That new Ovation variable white is a good choice. I was pretty impressed with it. It's a much more natural white than the E-910FC, but still hits a lot of the individual colors you would want -- just not as brightly as the E910-FC will.

To-date, the only issues I've noticed with the E910-FC and E930-VW is that if you're going to use gobos, you want to focus either with a single emitter color on or a mix, whichever is representative of how the fixture will be used.

If you focus sharp with a single-emitter color on, it'll go fuzzy when you add other colors. Vise versa if you focus sharp with multiple emitter colors on and go to a single emitter color.


E930-VW on the left. E910-FC on the right.

View attachment 15895


Focused white multiple emitters on, then reduced down to a single emitter type. Mind you, these were taken on my phone but nonetheless I would consider them representative of what I saw in person.

View attachment 15896


View attachment 15897

With the two gobo pictures, which fixture were you using? I'm curious as to how well the 930VW hits colors other than white and wasn't totally explicit by your post. Thanks!

 

[MNicolai]

With the two gobo pictures, which fixture were you using? I'm curious as to how well the 930VW hits colors other than white and wasn't totally explicit by your post. Thanks!

I don't recall which was shown in that photo.

The 930VW still hits individual colors pretty well. The emitter configuration is just rebalanced for a better output at white, which means a little less punch in the saturated colors. My gut instinct is that if you're not mixing and matching 910FC's and 930VW's, you'll never notice the lower intensity in saturated colors on the 930VW's.

My perspective is that the 910FC is better for applications that are solely color mixing. Event/nightclub lighting, themed attractions, certain architectural applications, etc. Whereas the 930VW is better for most overall theater/film use involving a combination of color mixing and white output.

@Ford should be able to set you up with a demo or tie you in with a local rep/dealer if you want a side-by-side between the two fixtures.

 

[JChenault]

If I were lighting faces, I would not go with an RGBA or RGBW. So for my 2 cents I would go with #2.

If budget is a consideration I would pick something for faces that has a lime green emitter. Either the ETC colorsourse or the Chaucer ovation

 

[Ford]

Chaucer...? That's a new one, John. LOL.

 

[JohnD]

Chaucer...?

Hey kids!!, it's Chaucer quote time:
“And gladly wolde he lerne, and gladly teche.”

“Life is short. Art long. Opportunity is fleeting. Expierience treacherous. Judgement difficult.”

“Ful wys is he that kan himselve knowe.”

 

[Ford]

Yeah... but did he like limes with his gin?

 

[JChenault]

Chaucer...? That's a new one, John. LOL.

That's what I get for typing on my iPhone without my glasses.

 

[sdauditorium]

I've been assured the price of the 600 watt LED will be comparable or a little under the 1200 hmi. And quieter. And a few months to shipping. Well see. Luckily I'm specifying for deliveries in fall of 2019.

I'm thinking that the Oz, even though no photometrics have been published yet (at least from what I can find), might be overkill for our situation. It's about or just under 100 feet from our spot bays to stage, and we currently have the Midget HP 1209. I got preliminary pricing of $10K for the Oz along with another $800 for the stand.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I'm thinking that the Oz, even though no photometrics have been published yet (at least from what I can find), might be overkill for our situation. It's about or just under 100 feet from our spot bays to stage, and we currently have the Midget HP 1209. I got preliminary pricing of $10K for the Oz along with another $800 for the stand.

Compare foot-candles. The Oz should be roughly double the Roxie. I like a spot that cuts through a 50 fc wash, so looking for 150-200 fc in white.

 

[sdauditorium]

Compare foot-candles. The Oz should be roughly double the Roxie. I like a spot that cuts through a 50 fc wash, so looking for 150-200 fc in white.

I was able to move some fixture quantities around and, whether we go with the Ovation 930VWs or Altman PHXs for our ellipsoidals, have included the Oz in the quote. Edited to mention that the Oz didn't have any datasheet or photometric documentation yet from what I could tell so wasn't able to compare.

 

[sdauditorium]

I was able to see nearly all of the fixtures that I had from a relatively local rental company and, along with feedback, research, etc., and many revisions, here's the final list that I submitted to go into the official RFP next week w/ a fixture package allocation of $285,000:

• 64 - Source Four Series 2 Lustr (variety of EDLTs include the LED-specific 50° tubes)
• 15 - ETC Desire D40 Vivid (w/ medium round diffuser)
• 16 - ETC Colorsource Cyc
• 12 - ETC Colorsource Par Deep Blue
• 4 - Chroma-Q ColorForce II 48" w/ border lenses
• 7 - Chauvet Professional Rogue R2 Wash
• 10 - Chauvet Professionl Rogue R3 Wash
• 10 - Chauvet Professional Maverick MK2 Spot
• 4 - Chauvet Professional Maverick MK2 Profile
• 2 - Robert Juliat Oz Cool White Follow Spot
• 20 - SSRC stage work lights

Also included but not listed include a bunch of DMX, PowerCON, TrueONE cable, etc.