I am looking for input on LED ellipsoidals. I am doing a theatre install and they want to switch to LEDs. The throw from the catwalks to the stage is about 100 ft. I am looking to see if anyone knows of a product that will have enough power to actually be effective at that distance. Thank you in advance for your input
LED ellipsoidals
- Thread starterAWeiss
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- led ellipsoidal
Ben Dickmann
Product Manager, Chauvet Professional
RickR
Well-Known Member
Since you haven't upgraded fixtures, even to 750 S4s, I suspect you are not in a cash rich environment. Are "they" aware of the costs involved? Will you need a new console and/or DMX distribution upgrades? $1K -$3K each can be a shocker or the bean counters.
I hear good things of the Altman Phoenix especially the 250W version. You will want all the punch you can get.
I hear good things of the Altman Phoenix especially the 250W version. You will want all the punch you can get.
I would look at the Chauvet Ovation and the ETC Source 4ward. I was not particularly impressed with the Phoenix. But as has been said, this is not cheap. If you want color mixing LED Elipsoidals you probably need to go ETC Source 4 LED 2... But they are REALLY not cheap. If you are currently using S4 Juniors on a 100' throw, I'm guessing you don't have the money for this upgrade.
Wait a few more years. The technology is getting better rapidly and the prices are falling.
Wait a few more years. The technology is getting better rapidly and the prices are falling.
Josh Rawls
Member
Cine Services here in St. Louis just last week did a Transitioning to LED workshop. One part of the night was a 4-way comparison of the Chauvet Ovation E-910FC, ETC ColorSource Spot, ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Lustr, and the Altman Phoenix.
I wish I had the pictures to show the differences, because they were very clear. Below is what I felt about the fixtures.
Chauvet Ovation E-910FC
The Ovation fixture was excellent. It gives you full control over all RGBAL arrays. It also includes a bunch of macros for common gel colors that match fairly well, not exactly but close. It was just as bright as a 575w fixture when set to 3250k and the white looked great. The light field was very even with a few darker areas around the very edges of the beam, but not terrible. They showed it with a calibration gobo installed. It did change focus slightly in different areas depending on the color. To be fair, all the fixtures did. This fixture was the second best at keeping focus. The dimming on it was excellent, very smooth and imitated a incandescent fairly well. I was very impressed by the fixture for the price point.
ETC ColorSource Spot
The ETC ColorSource Spot is also an excellent fixture. It only has a RGBL LED engine in it but it uses it extremely well. A 3250k white looked very good, almost as good as the Chauvet and the Lustr fixture. It kept focus better than the Chauvet fixture and was comparable to the Lustr. The colors were bright and saturated. I liked the blue the best on this fixture out of all of them. The dimming was super smooth and realistic. For my purposes, this is the fixture I am going to purchase.
ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Lustr
This is the grand-daddy of all the fixtures. It wasn't any brighter than any other fixture, and it didn't keep gobo focus as well at the ColorSource, but it did a great job at making any color you want. That is because it has a 7 color RGBAWLC LED engine. That's Red, Green, Blue, Amber, White, Lime, Cyan if you were wondering. If you really wanted the best chance at matching the gel colors you're used to then this is the fixture for you. It was just as good as the ColorSource on every other metric.
Altman Phoenix RGBA
The Altman Phoenix was definitely the brightest and had the most saturated RGB colors. The white was horrible, not even close to any kind of white, not even sure what color temperature it was but it wasn't usable. There were multi-color halos on the outside of the beam when making "white" or when any color mixing was occurring. Also, the dimming was not smooth at all. If you want to use gobos with it this is NOT the ficture you want. If you only want bright and saturated Red, Green, or Blue, then it is the fixture for you.
I hope that was helpful. I would definitely recommend getting a demo of all these fixtures at the same time if possible. It really helps to see them all side-by-side.
I wish I had the pictures to show the differences, because they were very clear. Below is what I felt about the fixtures.
Chauvet Ovation E-910FC
The Ovation fixture was excellent. It gives you full control over all RGBAL arrays. It also includes a bunch of macros for common gel colors that match fairly well, not exactly but close. It was just as bright as a 575w fixture when set to 3250k and the white looked great. The light field was very even with a few darker areas around the very edges of the beam, but not terrible. They showed it with a calibration gobo installed. It did change focus slightly in different areas depending on the color. To be fair, all the fixtures did. This fixture was the second best at keeping focus. The dimming on it was excellent, very smooth and imitated a incandescent fairly well. I was very impressed by the fixture for the price point.
ETC ColorSource Spot
The ETC ColorSource Spot is also an excellent fixture. It only has a RGBL LED engine in it but it uses it extremely well. A 3250k white looked very good, almost as good as the Chauvet and the Lustr fixture. It kept focus better than the Chauvet fixture and was comparable to the Lustr. The colors were bright and saturated. I liked the blue the best on this fixture out of all of them. The dimming was super smooth and realistic. For my purposes, this is the fixture I am going to purchase.
ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Lustr
This is the grand-daddy of all the fixtures. It wasn't any brighter than any other fixture, and it didn't keep gobo focus as well at the ColorSource, but it did a great job at making any color you want. That is because it has a 7 color RGBAWLC LED engine. That's Red, Green, Blue, Amber, White, Lime, Cyan if you were wondering. If you really wanted the best chance at matching the gel colors you're used to then this is the fixture for you. It was just as good as the ColorSource on every other metric.
Altman Phoenix RGBA
The Altman Phoenix was definitely the brightest and had the most saturated RGB colors. The white was horrible, not even close to any kind of white, not even sure what color temperature it was but it wasn't usable. There were multi-color halos on the outside of the beam when making "white" or when any color mixing was occurring. Also, the dimming was not smooth at all. If you want to use gobos with it this is NOT the ficture you want. If you only want bright and saturated Red, Green, or Blue, then it is the fixture for you.
I hope that was helpful. I would definitely recommend getting a demo of all these fixtures at the same time if possible. It really helps to see them all side-by-side.
@Josh Rawls, What was the lamp used in the Tungsten fixture? A 575w or 575wx(long life)? When I saw the E-910FC it was quite a bit LESS bright than even the long life lamp. The Ovation 190ww was, just about as bright as a long life.
I looked at the Elation offerings as well(at a different time) and the White only was Brighter than a standard 575w by a fair margin, maybe 40% brighter(so a lot brighter than the 575wx too), and The color mixing version was quite good. Great colors pretty good tungsten, an excellent CTB. At ~3200K it was just slightly dimmer than a 575w, and at L201 equivalent it was significantly brighter. Also, it has an incredibly flat field, almost no drop off even at the extreme edges.
I looked at the Elation offerings as well(at a different time) and the White only was Brighter than a standard 575w by a fair margin, maybe 40% brighter(so a lot brighter than the 575wx too), and The color mixing version was quite good. Great colors pretty good tungsten, an excellent CTB. At ~3200K it was just slightly dimmer than a 575w, and at L201 equivalent it was significantly brighter. Also, it has an incredibly flat field, almost no drop off even at the extreme edges.
theatricalmatt
Well-Known Member
Josh Rawls
Member
When they showed the white-only I believe it was a 575wx they initially showed against the 190ww and the new ETC LED replacement back. When they showed the color fixtures they didn't show the incandescent at the same time due to the lack of wall space for projection. They quickly changed between them and to my eyes there wasn't a huge difference. Maybe it was an optical illusion that I thought they looked the same brightness. They were close enough for my purposes.
This reseller doesn't sell Elation so I can't comment on the performance of that fixture.
Josh Rawls
Member
They had a calibration GOBO installed in all the color fixtures. You could see a lack of focus in different areas of the gobo depending on the color and the fixture. For instance, what was in focus with one fixture with pure red wasn't in focus with another. I think what is happening is the light source is changing with the different intensities of different colors. That makes the focus change some. The best focus was always with white and I think that is because the light source is more even because of the color mixing.
Josh Rawls
Member
I stopped back by Cine Services to take some pictures for everyone. All pictures were taken on an iPhone 6 Plus. I cannot be sure the colors in the picture are accurate but you can see the focus issue I was talking about. I guarantee the focus issues seen are true to the fixture and not because the iPhone was out of focus.
Clockwise from top left; Chauvet 910, ETC ColorSource, ETC Lustr, Altman Phoenix
To be continued...
Clockwise from top left; Chauvet 910, ETC ColorSource, ETC Lustr, Altman Phoenix
To be continued...
Josh Rawls
Member
Chauvet 910
To be continued...
To be continued...
Josh Rawls
Member
Josh Rawls
Member
Josh Rawls
Member
Josh Rawls
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