LED ERS opinions

[jtweigandt]

We used to have 15 source fours 575 watt on our FOH for primary areas. 5 zones of 3 WNC. Usually spread the warm and cool of each zone fairly far apart for dimension.
Neutral is more or less centered on it's area. Maybe 5 years ago we got some phoenix 250 watt LED RGBA and hung them where the traditional neutrals were.. for more versatility within a show.

Now considering the Sours four led series 3 lustr x8 to replace the warm and cool incandescents in those areas. Trying to tease out photometrics and equivalents from the data sheets
can make the head spin.

Am I crazy thinking I will get the same or more punch when using them in the equivalent of a light amber or a very pale blue mode, and then have all the versatility of all the color when we want it.
Or am I still not ready for prime time, and will still want some incandescent up there.

The phoenixes turned out crazy bright by comparison, but of course by themselves still seem to need some incandescent fill when we want nice skin tone.. They have been great for special/mood color.

We produce exclusively musicals... 5 per year in about a 600 seat house.

Also what other fixtures should I be considering for this task. Will ultimately do some demo/in house, but trying to develop a short list.

 

[JimmyM]

The series 3 lustrs are very bright.

I might recommend the ETC Photometrics app, it makes these kind of comparisions very easy.

Just some sample data: This is all with a 30' throw and 26deg lens(XDLT in the Series 3)

Color	S4 575(2000hr 120v)	S4 S3 Lustr X8
NC	113fc	80fc
R04	69fc	50fc
R80	10fc	13fc
R26	14fc	13fc
L202	62fc	79fc

Still not technically as bright as a incandescent source, but it holds it own and the Pale color reproduction is pretty spot on.

(EDIT: Updated with the more common 2000h lamp)

 

[MNicolai]

Lustr Series 3 is plenty bright and can easily compete with 575W HPL lamps.

ETC has a photometrics app for Android/iOS. I think you'll find it much easier to navigate than doing napkin math from data sheets.

If budget is an issue, I would at least aim for Lustr 3 in the front lighting positions and try and save money with Colorsource Spot Deep Blue's for high sides/back light/effects.

The series 3 lustrs are very bright.

I might recommend the ETC Photometrics app, it makes these kind of comparisions very easy.

Just some sample data: This is all with a 30' throw and 26deg lens(XDLT in the Series 3)

Color	S4 575	S4 S3 Lustr X8
NC	182fc	80fc
R04	111fc	50fc
R80	16fc	13fc
R26	22fc	13fc
L202	100fc	79fc

Still not technically as bright as a incandescent source, but it holds it own and the Pale color reproduction is pretty spot on.

Worth noting those photometrics are based on the 575W / 300-Hour / 115V lamp. For the many theaters that use the 2000-Hr version, the results are much closer. R04, for example, is 69fc in tungsten and 50fc in Series 3.

It's close enough where if you need to make up a little extra ground in terms of brightness, a stage wash you might ordinarily cover 5-zones wide with 36°'s in tungsten you could get similar intensity out of by covering 6-zones wide with 26°'s using Series 3.

 

[JAC]

I doubt if you'll feel like you need incandescent fill to get good skin tones from the Series 3, they're very good in that regard.

 

[RickR]

I doubt if you'll feel like you need incandescent fill to get good skin tones from the Series 3, they're very good in that regard.

The less expensive Colorsource Spot also has excellent skin tones. I regularly work with them side by side with 575x lamped S4 as front lights. The LEDs are brighter and flatter. When color matched it's very hard to tell the difference!

 

[macsound]

Lustr Series 3 is plenty bright and can easily compete with 575W HPL lamps.

ETC has a photometrics app for Android/iOS. I think you'll find it much easier to navigate than doing napkin math from data sheets.

If budget is an issue, I would at least aim for Lustr 3 in the front lighting positions and try and save money with Colorsource Spot Deep Blue's for high sides/back light/effects.




Worth noting those photometrics are based on the 575W / 300-Hour / 115V lamp. For the many theaters that use the 2000-Hr version, the results are much closer. R04, for example, is 69fc in tungsten and 50fc in Series 3.

It's close enough where if you need to make up a little extra ground in terms of brightness, a stage wash you might ordinarily cover 5-zones wide with 36°'s in tungsten you could get similar intensity out of by covering 6-zones wide with 26°'s using Series 3.

6 Zones? What animal doesn't have a center zone!

 

[Ford]

The Series 3 is either about as bright (in their High Output mode), or about 20-30% less bright (in the High Quality setting) than our Reve E3.
In either mode you should have more light than a 575w in colors near 3200k, and significantly brighter in more saturate colors.
Here is a link to our Photometric report.... in which I just found a typo (facepalm)... if you wait until after lunch to download it, you will not see the error... If you want a free piece of Swag, be the first to download it now, and find the error, PM me, and I'll have something sent your way!

One thing to consider is that LED "ERS"s have a much flatter field of light than you'll be used to with your incandescents. Meaning, at your first focus call, your LD will be battling to get the light levels even at the overlaps. In my experience, light frost, and throwing the LED units out of focus a little (unless you're using gobos) will help with that.

Your Dealer or Rep should be able to bring whichever instruments you're interested in comparing into your space for a Demo. At that Demo, have your regular S4 units, with some Gel selections, so you can compare the brightness to what you're used to. Also, Shoot in application, if you can (take to your FOH Catwalk, for a side-by-side), as well as shooting gobos on your cyc with (if they're setup) your cyc lights on to see how they cut through your other lighting.

When we Demoed fixtures for the Schwartz Center (Cornell U.'s school of Theatre, Film, and Dance), we made sure that they had their current inventory of fixtures run out to the Deck, so we could make real comparisons. This was about 5 (or more) yrs ago, so no Series 3, or Reve, and they run primarily 750s, but even with the tech at the time they decided to get some color changing LED Lekos (and cyc lights, and other stuff).
The real savings (in terms of both expendables, and time cutting and stuffing gel, and double/triple focusing) were significant enough. Especially on Cycs and Battens...