Control/Dimming LED Light DMX Problem?

C

chanceriehl

Member
OK, I am going to try to describe what's happening here:

I recently bought 12 Elation LED Opti Tri Par Lights. I have them all hooked up now and they are combined with some of the same lights but older models. The older models use 3-pin DMX and the newer ones use 5-Pin DMX. So, I also bought an Elation DMX Branch x4 Booster, so I can split the signal to both. I am sending 5-Pin DMX from my Strand Lighting Consol to the branch booster and from there, I am sending a 5-Pin send to the 5-Pin lights and a 3-Pin send to the 3-Pin lights obviously.

I have them all programmed correctly and they are functioning perfectly. I am alternating DMX addresses on the 2 chains. So the 5-Pin Lights have 2 addresses that alternate fixtures...same for the 3-Pin Lights. Everything is working completely fine...UNTIL I TURN OFF MY CONSOL! When I turn it off, all of the lights go crazy. They are alternating colors, they strobe, and turn on and off. I cannot figure out how to properly terminate this signal. I have placed terminators (Both a 3-Pin and a 5-Pin) at the end of the respective chains and nothing changes. I have set the terminate switch on the branch x 4 booster to terminate and to "link out" and neither of those settings change anything. the only thing I have gotten to work somehow is this: I had an older splitter box that split 5-Pin into 4-Pin. It is a powered box...Whenever I put A 5-Pin DMX cable from the output of the Branch x4 to the input on that old box and plug it in....the lights behave normally when my console turns off. Surely this isn't the only way to fix this issue???? There has to be a way other than keeping an un-necessary box that I am not using just so I can terminate my lines. It doesn't make sense why that would terminate it any way...I also tried putting a standard terminator in that same port and it didn't work.

I know a lot of this doesn't make sense..believe me i know! I have tried everything I know to do. If you have any thoughts at all, I would LOVE to hear them. Let me know if you need clarification on any of this as well. Thanks so much for your help and thoughts. Good luck!
 
It sounds like the Branch/4 is the problem.

Can you rent or borrow another similar device?
 
I mean yeah in theory I could. I could also try a 5-Pin to 3-Pin cable and link the two sets together I guess and totally bypass the branch x4? But I don't see how it could be the problem really? I am using it exactly how it is supposed to be used in a scenario that it was seemingly created for. So it seems like it shouldn't be the issue? but I don't know man...that very well may be
 
just as a test to see if the light still does it? That definitely would show if it is the branch or not.

Lets say the Branch 4 is the problem, would you or anyone else have another suggestion to easily get DMX to a 5-Pin and a 3-Pin chain?
 
chanceriehl said:
... Everything is working completely fine...UNTIL I TURN OFF MY CONSOL! When I turn it off, all of the lights go crazy. They are alternating colors, they strobe, and turn on and off. I cannot figure out how to properly terminate this signal. ...
Click to expand...
It's not a terminator, DMX issue; nor is it unexpected behavior. Sounds like when the fixtures lose DMX, they revert to sound-activated or stand-alone or macro mode. The solution is to remove power to the fixtures before turning off your DMX console. Perhaps there's also a way to disable the stand-alone functions in case of loss of DMX. http://www.elationlighting.com/pdffiles/opti_tri_par.pdf
 
How are they switching modes by themselves?
I've used these fixtures and never seen that before.

These are "dumb" fixtures, when they lose DMX nothing happens.
 
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derekleffew said:
It's not a terminator, DMX issue; nor is it unexpected behavior. Sounds like when the fixtures lose DMX, they revert to sound-activated or stand-alone or macro mode. The solution is to remove power to the fixtures before turning off your DMX console. Perhaps there's also a way to disable the stand-alone functions in case of loss of DMX. http://www.elationlighting.com/pdffiles/opti_tri_par.pdf
Click to expand...

I know that it would definitely work to take away power to the fixtures first, but the problem is, it is a permanent install system. So in order to take power away, I would need to go backstage and upstairs to the breaker box every time and flip the breaker. If this is what needs to happen then so be it...just seems like there's got to be a better way. surely every facility with LED lights and a permanent install shouldn't have to flip a breaker to get them to function properly. And as far as I can tell, there is no option with these to set the mode differently about what happens when they stop receiving DMX. If you look at that manual you posted...I am running the lights in 7-Channel mode. Any other thoughts based on those comments? I appreciate the help
 
chanceriehl said:
the only thing I have gotten to work somehow is this: I had an older splitter box that split 5-Pin into 4-Pin. It is a powered box...Whenever I put A 5-Pin DMX cable from the output of the Branch x4 to the input on that old box and plug it in....the lights behave normally when my console turns off.
Click to expand...
This pretty much says it.
 
The manual identifies that in 7 channel mode, the 6th channel can put them into sound activated mode or a number of other modes.
That, in combination with DMX Death Gasp would be my guess as to what's going on.

...
 
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Chris15 said:
The manual identifies that in 7 channel mode, the 6th channel can put them into sound activated mode or a number of other modes.
That, in combination with DMX Death Gasp would be my guess as to what's going on...
Click to expand...

You may be on to something there...because..EVen though I have them in 7-Channel mode, I am not using any of the 7 channels except for the Red, Green, Blue, and Master Dimmer channels. Which Means from my board, I haven't addressed channel 6 at all. Could that have something to do with it?
 
Note that it was a hypothesis, not a definitive answer from Elation. I'd contact eloader or ELASERV for the final word.
chanceriehl said:
... surely every facility with LED lights and a permanent install shouldn't have to flip a breaker to get them to function properly. ...
Click to expand...
Several, sometimes contradictory, thoughts on this:
  • Better quality lights would somehow know what you wanted them to do upon the loss of DMX.
  • It's not the lights' fault that you have a poorly-planned installation, with no remote control of power.
  • If the console is not on, the lights should not have power either.
  • One way to solve the problem without "going backstage and upstairs," is to leave the console on 24/7.

chanceriehl said:
... Which Means from my board, I haven't addressed channel 6 at all. Could that have something to do with it?
Click to expand...
Even if you haven't patched channel 6 on each fixture to a control channel, the console will still send out a DMX value of zero. And, as Chris15 mentioned, DMX death gasp could be sending out a non-zero vaule for every channel 6 upon console power down. Doubtful, but possible. To test this theory, what happens if you unplug the DMX cable from the console before powering down?
 
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derekleffew said:
Note that it was a hypothesis, not a definitive answer from Elation. I'd contact eloader or ELASERV for the final word.
Several, sometimes contradictory, thoughts on this:
Click to expand...

yeah bro I get all that...but as the installation was before me, I can't help that part.. So I am trying to make the best of a bad situation here. Seems like leaving the console on 24/7 is a worse idea than leaving the lights on.
 
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chanceriehl said:
the only thing I have gotten to work somehow is this: I had an older splitter box that split 5-Pin into 4-Pin. It is a powered box...Whenever I put A 5-Pin DMX cable from the output of the Branch x4 to the input on that old box and plug it in....the lights behave normally when my console turns off. Surely this isn't the only way to fix this issue????
Click to expand...

My guess is because your old splitter is powered it is maintaining some sort of signal or possibly preventing the DMX Death Gasp from getting through.

I would also look at the possibility that it isn't the console that is sending out the Death Gasp but your DMX Branch x4 Booster that is doing it.

As for what else you can do:
1) Is it a really large space? If it's not you could dump the splitter and turn it all into one long run. Start with the 5pin line, daisy chain it along through all the 5 pin gear, then put a 5 pin to 3 pin adapter on the line and continue back through the gear picking up the 3 pin gear.

2) If you can determine that the problem is the splitter itself you could buy a Doug Fleenor splitter instead. It'll cost a lot more but they are the industry standard for a reason. In a critical situation I would trust nothing else.

3) Going way off the deep end. In theory you could get some DMX to RJ45 adapters, dump all your DMX cable and run CAT5 everywhere instead. Instead of a splitter run it through a router. That said, I've never done this to that extreme. I setup a small system this way and it worked great, but that was just a cat5 and DMX adapter daisy chain from the console through four wall mounted dimmer packs. I'm not sure about the router part of it, I would want confirmation from some of the geniuses around here first, but in theory I think it will work.
 
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Just a small suggestion.....turn off the power to the fixtures. We should all be aware that when we remove data to our LED fixtures, and leave power on, the fixtures are still running. The power supplies are energized and we all know that electronics have a limited useful life.

We're all spoiled by dimmers since when we turn off the console, all the tungsten [and other] sources turn off. Only the dimmer electronics stay active which is 1-6 devices per rack. The same is not true for LED fixtures.

So I've been on a little bit of a campaign, secretly [not much of a campaign then I guess], to let people know that their LED fixtures, MLs, scrollers, foggers, etc, will all last longer if you remove power from them. We have such a large investment in these devices, it only makes sense to have them around for as long as possible.

Sorry if this blatantly obvious...maybe it can help someone....

Yes, it would be nice to know what's going on with the OP's data issue. Not addressing or patching channel 6 is not the issue and my guess is the splitter is faulty. Try to source another splitter with some 3-5 pin adaters and see if the problem still exists. If not, you've found it.

David
 
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The Enttec plitter has both 3 and 5 pin ouputs, and is available for about $100. I have 3 of the Elation branch 4 spitters, and there is nothing in them except Rs485 transceivers isolation chips and power supplies. There is no logic chips or programming in them that could send erroneous signals.
 
Dude, you should ALWAYS turn off any gear if it is not in constant use. "Sleep" mode still uses power. The savings from using low wattage fixtures is partially negated when those fixtures are always using power (do the math to find out how much power your fixtures are using, probably 5 to 15w per fixture during sleep mode). If you have a rig of LED fixtures, it is worth the time and money to make sure the power to them is controlled by a RELAY. Turning a breaker on and off works but breakers are not switch gear and their duty cycle is different than an actual relay switch. Turning off the breaker or relay adds an added level of safety for your fixtures in case there is an electrical event (lighting strike,power surge, etc) that can damage your gear, and possibly cause a fire. As another poster has said, turn off all of your gear (scrollers, etc).
 
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