LED Stage Light Options for High School Theater

jbogner

Member
Hi all,

I am a high school student who works for my school district on my school's stage sound and lighting systems. I am looking at LED lighting options to give to the school district for when they decide to go LED. Because halogen bulbs are becoming more difficult to find and our current halogen fixtures are in rough shape, they will need to change to LED fixtures in the near future. Our current fixture list is as shown:

30x Altman 65Q
5x Altman PAR 64
4x Strand Century Lekolite
26x Strand SL Ellipsoidal
3x Strand Century Iris 4
1x Altman 360Q
12x Altman PAR 38 (used as worklights on the stage with conventional bulbs, not used in performances)

Does anyone have good recommendations for LED fixtures that would provide good light output comparable to our current fixtures? We need reliable fixtures that will last the district for years to come but also can't break our budget. Color abilities would also be very nice to have but we may not be able to have every fixture as a color changing fixture. Some fixtures I have been looking at are ETC ColorSource PARs and the ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Lustr. Has anyone had experience with either of those types of fixtures and are they reliable/good options for replacing halogen lights? What are other good options for LED fixtures?

I attached a pdf of our fixture layout in case anyone wants to see that for reference. Because our stage is in a multipurpose gym instead of an auditorium, rows 1 and 2 are in the gym ceiling while rows 3-5 are battens on the stage. The Strand Century Iris 4 units are used for color on the back curtain. Many of the Strand SLs are used to light the front of the stage with a handful of them being on row 3 with color scrollers attached. Our power distribution system is a Strand CD80SV with a Johnson Systems CD3000+ Retrofit. All circuits used for LED would be changed over to retrofit relay modules from Johnson Systems.

Thanks!
 

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Generally, schools get in contact with a company that designs the entire rig; and as a student, your not likely to have much significant input.

One thing I would suggest would be to preserve as much of the current infrastructure as possible, for the purpose of utilizing the existing equipment until it wears out. This also allows a base plot designed around all the new fixtures, and the older fixtures being used for specials, and the like. Color matching does become an issue. The HS I do the lighting for did just this. For DMX controlled LED fixtures, you will need far less power to generate the same amount of light, so keeping half of more of the dimmers is viable.

One thing, as far as fixture brand goes, I'd insist on industry standard fixtures, solely for the sake of long term parts availability. The bulk of the system that we just replaced was from ~2008, and the biggest issue was it was a lot of the fixtures that were discontinued shortly after installation, meaning by the time we started needing parts, they weren't available. Luckily I'm wiling to go in deeper than most and repair them at a component level(i.e. sswapping out the lamp socket rather than the entire cap when sockets arced out. Cap's weren't available, TP-22 sockets are)
 
Hi,

I am aware that a lot of times schools will get in contact with a company that designs the entire rig, but that may not be as cost friendly. As a small rural school district, every little bit counts. I have a high amount of input as a student/young employee of the school district that has designed and replaced our sound system with upgraded equipment, so they would likely go with whatever system I were to design if I was given the go ahead to do so.

Regarding preserving current infrastructure, I do think that is a good idea. Our current dimmer rack (Strand CD80SV with JSI CD3000+SV) won't go anywhere with the new upgrades and I would likely just change a few circuits over to JSI non-dim relay modules to support any new LED fixtures. I have replaced sockets (many TP-22 type) and electrical wires in almost all of our current halogen fixtures, so they should be all set to last for years to come.

With the fixture brands, which brands do you recommend for going with potentially? Some brands I have looked at are ETC, Altman, and Vari-Lite. Unfortunately, it sounds like repairing LED fixtures will be nowhere as easy as swapping out sockets or other hardware in the old halogen lights, so I would like as reliable of fixtures as possible to reduce the chance of problems in the future.

Thank you for your response!
 
Hi,

I am aware that a lot of times schools will get in contact with a company that designs the entire rig, but that may not be as cost friendly. As a small rural school district, every little bit counts. I have a high amount of input as a student/young employee of the school district that has designed and replaced our sound system with upgraded equipment, so they would likely go with whatever system I were to design if I was given the go ahead to do so.

Regarding preserving current infrastructure, I do think that is a good idea. Our current dimmer rack (Strand CD80SV with JSI CD3000+SV) won't go anywhere with the new upgrades and I would likely just change a few circuits over to JSI non-dim relay modules to support any new LED fixtures. I have replaced sockets (many TP-22 type) and electrical wires in almost all of our current halogen fixtures, so they should be all set to last for years to come.

With the fixture brands, which brands do you recommend for going with potentially? Some brands I have looked at are ETC, Altman, and Vari-Lite. Unfortunately, it sounds like repairing LED fixtures will be nowhere as easy as swapping out sockets or other hardware in the old halogen lights, so I would like as reliable of fixtures as possible to reduce the chance of problems in the future.

Thank you for your response!
@jbogner Learn what brands and models your nearest rental and sales shops carry, then rent one or two to try in your own space. Having a supplier nearby is always a good idea.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
You've got a good steer on the brands - ETC, Chauvet Pro, High End, Elation, those sort of well known manufacturers are all worth looking at and auditioning in your space. Avoiding the "unnamed" imports, or even "name" dj gear is usually a good idea, though, where quality of light, longevity and stability is the aim.
 
Having done exactly this work many times, there is a major difference between selecting some equipment to add, and re-designing a system. In the first case your closest dealer/ rental shop is your best friend! For 100 reasons they will be key to your long term happiness.

In the second case, a paid designer/ consultant will more than save their own fees. Avoiding major mistakes and looking out for the long term are huge. (How long until the next upgrade? 5yrs, 50?) Understanding the market and the supply process will also smooth over many issues. If a contractor gets involved then someone must clearly document the work to be done, and make sure it's done well. Few contractors know anything about theater systems.
 
Thank you all for your replies!

Regarding the advice on brands, I do agree that purchasing brands that a close shop would carry is a good idea, I just don't think we have much for any lighting stores around here as I live in the middle of nowhere when it comes to audio/visual shops and we haven't had great experiences with companies that have come out to the district in the past. Thank you for the recommendations to avoid any kind of fixtures labeled "DJ Gear", I have seen some of that but hadn't known what to think about it. Higher end brands definitely sound like a good idea for longevity and serviceability so I will try to stick to one of those. If I get an "Ok" from the board of education to advance the project, I will definitely reach out to a couple of those brands to get fixtures for trying out.

It is good to know that paid designers and consultants may be worth it. I might look into doing that, but once again, the school district doesn't like to spend money on technology for our stage and the only reason we got a new sound system was because I was able to design it for them so it may not be the best option in our case. Thankfully we shouldn't need to have a contractor out to do anything because our power distribution system should be able to handle any LEDs we could throw at it. I would say the next upgrade (if they were to do one within the next couple years here) would be in 20+ years so looking out for the long term is a key part of our planning.

Thank you
Jeremiah Bogner
 
What console do you have. Is it capable of handling LED lights?
Frequently, the first place for replacements would be what is your Row 5. How high is your upstage curtain? The main reason is that the upstage backdrop lighting is that it is power guzzling gel-eaters. There are two types of fixtures for this. The strip light which is close to the backdrop and the scoop type of light which is further away.
One very popular strip light is the Chauvet Ovation B-2805FC. It is very bright and more suitable for taller upstage drops. Several users here have found it bright enough to add color to an upstage black velour drop. This may be overkill for your space. Another option would be the Chauvet Pro Cyc 1 and Cyc 3.
For par lights right now the Elation KL Par FC is getting a lot of love.
As always get a demo in your space before deciding.
For your ERS the ETC Colorsource deserves a look, probably the deep blue version.
 
Don't forget to budget for swapping out dimmers to hard power relays if you haven't already. The inrush surge on pro LED fixtures can be quite high, so you need to sequence the switch on somehow, so that you don't apply power to too many fixtures at once (we put a maximum of 7 colorsource spots on each of our relay 16A circuits, for example). We have a Zero88 rig switch to sequence our power to the LEDs.
 
@jbogner Please flip your Light Plot so that "upstage" is toward the "top" of the page and downstage is toward the bottom. This is industry standard and the only variation is if "in the round" in which case the majority of the audience or egress is at the bottom.

I just don't think we have much for any lighting stores around here as I live in the middle of nowhere when it comes to audio/visual shops and we haven't had great experiences with companies that have come out to the district in the past.
Well that may be true, but you're not far away from arguably one of the best colleges for tech in the US. I'd be making friends with them.
 
Our console is a Phillips/Strand 250ML, which may need replacing if we went with LEDs. Do you think that particular console can handle LED fixtures? I believe making LED fixture profiles for the console isn't too difficult, but its channel capacity may not be enough.

Our upstage curtain is probably 15-20 feet tall and is 2-3 feet away from the Row 5 lighting batten. The current Strand Iris 4 units are 1000w fixtures and burn through color sheets like there is no tomorrow when left on (and if you leave them on there may be no tomorrow with how much of a fire hazard they are currently), so I agree that they should be the first to be replaced. Thank you for the specific fixture recommendations, I may need to take a look at those. If I get approval, I will try them out in our space.

Thank you for the note on budgeting for relays, I've already been able to look into those and priced those out. Since we run on a retrofitted Strand CD80SV Dimmer Rack, I will be able to purchase DMX controlled relay modules for the rack and use those for powering on and off fixtures.

Thanks for letting me know that the light plot was the wrong way! I totally forgot to check that when I made it a while ago. I will attach the new version (with correct orientation) to this post.
 

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  • 04.09.23 SVHS Stage Lighting Fixture Layout 2023.pdf
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Hi all,

I am a high school student who works for my school district on my school's stage sound and lighting systems. I am looking at LED lighting options to give to the school district for when they decide to go LED. Because halogen bulbs are becoming more difficult to find and our current halogen fixtures are in rough shape, they will need to change to LED fixtures in the near future. Our current fixture list is as shown:

30x Altman 65Q
5x Altman PAR 64
4x Strand Century Lekolite
26x Strand SL Ellipsoidal
3x Strand Century Iris 4
1x Altman 360Q
12x Altman PAR 38 (used as worklights on the stage with conventional bulbs, not used in performances)

Does anyone have good recommendations for LED fixtures that would provide good light output comparable to our current fixtures? We need reliable fixtures that will last the district for years to come but also can't break our budget. Color abilities would also be very nice to have but we may not be able to have every fixture as a color changing fixture. Some fixtures I have been looking at are ETC ColorSource PARs and the ETC Source Four LED Series 2 Lustr. Has anyone had experience with either of those types of fixtures and are they reliable/good options for replacing halogen lights? What are other good options for LED fixtures?

I attached a pdf of our fixture layout in case anyone wants to see that for reference. Because our stage is in a multipurpose gym instead of an auditorium, rows 1 and 2 are in the gym ceiling while rows 3-5 are battens on the stage. The Strand Century Iris 4 units are used for color on the back curtain. Many of the Strand SLs are used to light the front of the stage with a handful of them being on row 3 with color scrollers attached. Our power distribution system is a Strand CD80SV with a Johnson Systems CD3000+ Retrofit. All circuits used for LED would be changed over to retrofit relay modules from Johnson Systems.

Thanks!

Which fixtures are you having trouble sourcing lamps for? Other than the PAR's?

Other than minor supply chain variations, most lamps are still being produced and virtually every one I've searched for, even ones that are clearly obsolete, are still available from many distributors.

Be careful if you go the consultant route. Many of them have designs they just stick to because customizing for a particular, and especially budget strapped, clients is not worth it to them. I found a post or two from consultants on this forum where they essentially admit, they have an agenda in their designs, and they don't really care about switching it up. You also wouldn't be the first group with a small venue who would pay a lot of money and end up with a product you aren't happy with. Best to do what you're doing and do your own research. After all, the school isn't paying you by the hour for it, and it is hugely educational for you!

Do you have any experience with bench focusing your fixtures? Many old fixtures end up very out of bench focus when newer lamp types are swapped in, at least that is what I found with our fleet of 360Q's. The difference between a properly focused fixture and what we had was enormous. That's a very capable system you have there, if maintained properly, you should be able to do quite a lot with it.
 
We ended up being able to find BTM/BTN bulbs for our Altman 65Qs, FFT bulbs for our Strand Iris 4s, EHD bulbs for our Strand Lekolites, and FEL/GLA/FLK bulbs for our Strand SL fixtures, but finding bulbs seems to only be more difficult as time goes on and we have to order from a variety of different websites to get the different types of bulbs we need. We have almost always stuck with Osram as our bulb brand because the ones we have are reliable, but it seems to only get more difficult to purchase them. It is definitely good to hear that many of those types of lamps are still being produced, but how much longer do you think that will continue?

Thanks for the warning about consultants, that has been my experience too when we paid a company to come out to my church to install a camera/lighting system for live streaming services. They spent more on equipment than they should have and we don't even use some of the devices they purchased because they aren't practical for our use. My goal is to eliminate that factor and make sure that any lighting installation done here is the most practical system for our school and will last for years to come. It is definitely a great educational experience for my crew and myself.

I don't have any experience with bench focusing fixtures, I have heard of it many times but am not sure how to do it. I'm currently in the process of finishing electrical repairs on all of the fixtures and will then look into getting them properly focused. How difficult is bench focusing? Does it involve removing the entire fixture from the beams and testing it separately?

Thank you for your reply.
 
I believe all of those are currently produced by Osram. I am not an expert on the Strand fixtures, but I believe those are all G9.5 axial lamps and are all interchangeable, its just a matter of photometrics and bench focus. The only limit on interchanceability being wattage, 360Q's for example, are not rated for FEL's or 1kW lamps. People use them, but they'll eventually burn up the fixture. My sources have said these lamps will be available "For the forseable future" and any rumors as to their production ceasing are false. They're not likely to be affected by any DOE actions because they are almost impossible to classify as "general purpose lamps". They're used heavily in other applications, not just stage lighting.

I have no plans to change our theater's system off tungsten for the foreseeable future. We have LED fixtures, as they are excellent in some applications, struggle in others. Right now, I would say you're still more likely to end up having to replace an LED fixture because of their (admittedly) seldom failures than ending up being unable to lamp a TH (tungsten halogen) fixture unless it is something very odd.

Look at BTH lamps for your fresnels too, they are a relatively recent new design with a slightly higher color temperature than BTN's. I'm evaluating them in our next lamp order. Don't bother with BTL's whatever you do.

Look at these guys for PAR lamps, the Absolute Lumens brand. https://www.techni-lux.com/ PAR's went through a crisis a few years ago when GE/Phillips/Osram stopped branding Chinese import lamps that were failing prematurely. Absolute Lumens is rumored to be a new manufacturer using a different glass. I am also ordering some of them to re-lamp a fleet of PAR's we just got for free.

EDIT: forgot to answer you about bench focusing.

Bench focusing is adjusting the lamp holder to center it in the fixture's reflector. It will give you the best output, focus, and avoid hot spots that burn your gels, gobos, shutters, and reflectors themselves. Some of the OG's here will have to answer about the Strand fixtures. I haven't bench focused a 65Q, but they don't rely on lamp geometry quite so much as an ERS. On Altman 360Q's, there are a few screws on the lamp holder that allow you to move it in and out of the reflector, or side to side by using the screws as legs on a tripod, if you can picture that.

Its name implies being done on a bench, usually with the fixture pointed square at a flat surface so you can see the hot spot and look of the beam. I had great success pointing them at a large projection screen. Taking them down gives you a chance to clean lenses (look up how to do that properly), inspect them for rigging or electrical hazards, and replace any bad parts. You might be surprised at how good they look after some TLC.

Here is a before and after on a 6x12.
 

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are all interchangeable, its just a matter of photometrics and bench focus
Be aware that part of that may involve changing the lamp holder base in order that the filament lines up correctly e.g. a Strand Cantata Fresnel can use a 1000W or a 1200W lamp but it's not just a matter of swapping the lamp, the spacer under the lamp holder needs to be changed to re-align the lamp in the reflector. Often part of the difference between axial and non-axial lanterns is in the length of the filament, too.
 
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Good to know that these lamps won't be discontinued anytime soon... that gives me a bit of peace of mind while operating a system that depends solely on 80-90 halogen fixtures. Our Strand fixtures do have G9.5 lamps (with the exception of the Strand Iris 4 units) so most of those are interchangeable. The most we use in any of those kinds of fixtures are 575w bulbs though, we don't use any higher wattage bulbs because we don't need that kind of light output and don't need to burn up our fixtures for it.

I will have to check out the BTH lamps for our next bulb order, right now we have a decent stock of BTM/BTN lamps for our fresnels though so I am not sure when I'll go about ordering more. I will also have a look at that site for PAR lamps, I had noticed that there was a lot of discontinuing of those lamps and we have 6 of those fixtures (one not in use) so it would definitely be good if we can put those into service for longer (we are running on a decent number of old GE lamps right now and are just waiting for those to burn out).

Thank you for your notes on bench focusing, those should be really helpful for us as I have noticed that many of our fixtures don't appear to be focused at all. There is definitely a good difference between your photos, so that gives me hope that we can make those fixtures function better again. Our fixtures have gone through many different styles of bulbs over the years with no one to properly focus them or do regular maintenance on the units, so everything is dust covered and completely out of focus now. We have a few more Altman 360Q units sitting in our stage wing awaiting electrical repairs, so after we get those fixed I'll have to focus those as well.
 
Our Strand fixtures do have G9.5 lamps (with the exception of the Strand Iris 4 units) so most of those are interchangeable.
Bear in mind the fixture power rating, as already said. Until we retired them we had Strand minims and quartets and preludes, all use GY9.5 lamps but the minims wouldn't cope with a 650W lamp like the quartets and preludes used. Also, watch out for the GX9.5 and GY9.5 - both have the same spacing, but they don't all have same sized pins, and the wrong lamp will damage the holder.
 
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Okay, good to know. We tend to use the same types of lamps (GLA is our most common) and will probably stick with those lamps because they are 575w and won't burn up our fixtures. I'll have to keep an eye out for the lamp base size, thank you for the warning about that.
 
We are still making all major Tungsten Halogen Lamps (HPLs, FLK, FEL, BTL, BTN, BTR, CYX, BTH, GLC/GLA/GLD/GLE, etc., etc.) with no plan to discontinue them anytime soon. Every once in a while we face an issue in making a certain type if it has a unique component, and the supplier goes out of business (ie. BVT, BVW, etc. with P40s bases), but we hope to FINALLY have those again early next month.
 
Ok, thanks, that is great news! I will have to tell the people above me that we shouldn't have those kinds of supply shortages in the near future then as Osram is our brand of bulb we always go with.
 

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