LED Stage Wash good-to-knows...

[IanTech]

Alright, we've decided to go with LED Source Fours or a similar fixture. Is there anything we should pay attention to?

Series 2 Lustr or Daylight HD or Tungsten HD or a mix?

Any other Source Four LED alternatives?

Should we swap out existing lens tubes? How many of each degree of tubes is most useful? Is LED overlap as bad as some 2012 thread says with the Series 2?

 

[SteveB]

Unless you are doing film or TV production, I don’t see a need for the Daylight or Tungsten.

We did a big purchase this past spring and are now on our 6th production for our Theater Dept. plus an Opera, with a lot of Lustr 2’s and D60 Vivids. Our current show just loading in has zero incandescent outside of practicals. Our Lustrs were supplied with HD lenses, though we have at times swapped out for non HD and I’ve not noticed a difference.

Your best bet is to get a local sales facility to bring in a variety of fixtures and look at the ETC, a Chauvet, Altman, etc.... and do side by side comparisons. Set them all up with an incandescent to compare, bring an assortment of gels AND gobo’s. Run some cues and color changes. This will give you a chance to see where all that money is going.

Some lessons learned.
- The Lustre doesn’t do gobo’s, or at least a breakup, as well as an incandescent, thus our student LD’s have learned to use an regular S4 for that. Learning curve on this and the juries still out. Look at this closely with a variety of commonly used gobo’s
- I have not seen issues with the “no hot spot” beam to beam blending. We do not have any Smooth Wash Diffusers but it’s on the list. Maybe ask to send some with a demo.
- Power Con pass thrus and more PC pass thrus. Order a lot now. We also use Lex Orchestra E-Strings as they are cheaper than pass thrus. All our LED uses Edison connectors as BTW.
- 5 & 10 ft DMX and lots of it, order now.
- Maybe order LightSource Mega-Clamps. The Lustr’s a $2500 fixture and you don’t want to hang that off an old Altman c-clamp. Ours came with an ETC clamp, but MegaClamp is the smart choice.
- If an ETC Sensor rack order a lot of relays.
- Think about data distro. Do you need 2 port, 4 port, 8 port Gateways ?, order Cat6 and good stuff. We have been friggin plagued with cheap Cat5 crap that won’t connect. I have thrown out a dozen and it’s immensly time consuming to track down a simple error like that. Pointless.
- Upgrade the console with add’l address capability. I’m doing shows now that have 17 - 1&2 port Gateways and 4000 address used. Who would have thought.

- Big lesson learned, be prepared for twice the electrics load in time required per event. Every fixture gets hung, then power cabeled and pass thrus, then DMX, plus prep and land the nodes, swap to relays, then power stuff up, then address, then test, etc..... LOT MORE TIME NEEDED. And smarter electricians who have done it before.

 

[SteveB]

Oh and I’ve had to get better at Vectorworks, Lightwight 6, which for this stuff is worth every penny, as well as getting data files to the Ion. We are also doing LW labels to pre-address and assign units. I’ve also gotten very good at Net3 Concert.

 

[gafftaper]

I would call your local dealer and ask them to set you up with a demo shootout of:
-Source Four LED 2 Lustre
- ETC ColorSource Spot
-Chauvet Ovation E-910FC

The S4LED2 Lustre is everything you could ever dream of in 7 color led mixing, but it is also expensive and may be more fixture than you really need for your space and purpose.
The Colorsource engine doesn't go really deep into heavily saturated colors, but it is outstanding with white, the soft pastel colors often used for front light, it can do a decent medium red/green/blue, and costs a lot less than the Lustre.
The Chauvet Ovation is somewhere in between the two ETC's with its very nice RGBAL engine. It's a well made fixture and the price makes a strong argument for it.

All 3 could be a great match for your needs, but you really need a demo in your space to know for sure. Anytime you are spending that much money demand a demo. If your local dealer can't/doesn't want to set it up reply back here that you need a demo and our manufacturer friends will help you set it up.

 

[IanTech]

Unless you are doing film or TV production, I don’t see a need for the Daylight or Tungsten.

We did a big purchase this past spring and are now on our 6th production for our Theater Dept. plus an Opera, with a lot of Lustr 2’s and D60 Vivids. Our current show just loading in has zero incandescent outside of practicals. Our Lustrs were supplied with HD lenses, though we have at times swapped out for non HD and I’ve not noticed a difference.

Your best bet is to get a local sales facility to bring in a variety of fixtures and look at the ETC, a Chauvet, Altman, etc.... and do side by side comparisons. Set them all up with an incandescent to compare, bring an assortment of gels AND gobo’s. Run some cues and color changes. This will give you a chance to see where all that money is going.

Some lessons learned.
- The Lustre doesn’t do gobo’s, or at least a breakup, as well as an incandescent, thus our student LD’s have learned to use an regular S4 for that. Learning curve on this and the juries still out. Look at this closely with a variety of commonly used gobo’s
- I have not seen issues with the “no hot spot” beam to beam blending. We do not have any Smooth Wash Diffusers but it’s on the list. Maybe ask to send some with a demo.
- Power Con pass thrus and more PC pass thrus. Order a lot now. We also use Lex Orchestra E-Strings as they are cheaper than pass thrus. All our LED uses Edison connectors as BTW.
- 5 & 10 ft DMX and lots of it, order now.
- Maybe order LightSource Mega-Clamps. The Lustr’s a $2500 fixture and you don’t want to hang that off an old Altman c-clamp. Ours came with an ETC clamp, but MegaClamp is the smart choice.
- If an ETC Sensor rack order a lot of relays.
- Think about data distro. Do you need 2 port, 4 port, 8 port Gateways ?, order Cat6 and good stuff. We have been friggin plagued with cheap Cat5 crap that won’t connect. I have thrown out a dozen and it’s immensly time consuming to track down a simple error like that. Pointless.
- Upgrade the console with add’l address capability. I’m doing shows now that have 17 - 1&2 port Gateways and 4000 address used. Who would have thought.

- Big lesson learned, be prepared for twice the electrics load in time required per event. Every fixture gets hung, then power cabeled and pass thrus, then DMX, plus prep and land the nodes, swap to relays, then power stuff up, then address, then test, etc..... LOT MORE TIME NEEDED. And smarter electricians who have done it before.

Thanks, lots to think about. We are an auditorium that does video broadcast and livestreaming so I think Daylight might be cheaper than doing a full arsenal of Series 2 Lustr but I will have to see.

 

[Michael K]

Also check out the Chauvet Ovation F-930VW which uses a 6 color array more similar to the x7 then the other units mentioned. If you are set on white only, then there's an entire line of white only Ovations, and the ColorSource Pearl spot to check out.

 

[IanTech]

Also check out the Chauvet Ovation F-930VW which uses a 6 color array more similar to the x7 then the other units mentioned. If you are set on white only, then there's an entire line of white only Ovations, and the ColorSource Pearl spot to check out.

Are the ColorSoruce Pearls like Source Four Series 2 Daylight and Tungsten fixtures combined?

 

[Michael K]

Are the ColorSoruce Pearls like Source Four Series 2 Daylight and Tungsten fixtures combined?

According to the DMX profiles in the spec sheets (links below) the Series 2 Daylight and Tungsten fixtures mix 4-5 colors* to get their variable whites (both cover 2700-6500K, but have differing intensities across the range), while the Pearl array just has warm and cool white LEDs (probably 2700K and 6500K). Keep in mind, things like +/- green and tint shifting can also make a difference on camera in making all the sources in a shot look even.

ColorSource Pearl & S4 LED Series 2

*Or Colours if you prefer (Ron )

 

[macsound]

Having not used, but have been in the audience of a show using tons of Series 2, they're distracting to me.
I know my eyes to funny things because I can walk in a room and tell that a projector is DLP (vs LCD) because I can see the rainbow from the spinning color wheel, so it might be the same phenomenon with the S4 LEDs.

Having used Source4WRDs, they're great. The color temperature has a bit of pink hue when you look at the fixture, but the projected light looks totally normal.

 

[Chase P.]

My $0.02 worth:

Be prepared for the additional weight. They're roughly twice what a regular Source 4 is. If your crew is used to climbing ladders or hauling up instruments with a purchase line, changes may need to be made. If you truss hang, you'll need to get really OCD about balancing the load so the truss doesn't roll. If you're used to yolking out or side hanging instruments, maybe invest in a stock of safer sidearms.
Getting the focus loops on cables takes a bit of learning, too. The cord length on the original Source 4 made it really easy, just land the stage pin near the clamp location and go. If you work with less experienced crew, consider a unique tape color near the PowerCon ends of your cables to establish the loop you need.
Get the beam homogenizers. It's a frost that goes in the gobo slot, helps take out the rainbowing on the beam edges.
The color changing options are pretty great, especially for side lights.
The fact that the old S4 barrels and accessories still work is awesome.

You lucky dog, you're gonna have fun with your new toys!

 

[SteveB]

As an update to using gobo's on Lustr's, I focused a bunch of generic steel breakups today and the imaging was fine. As good as an incandescent.

 

[SteveB]

My $0.02 worth:

Be prepared for the additional weight. They're roughly twice what a regular Source 4 is. !

Well not really. They certainly do feel heavier than an incandescent, but according to the documentation, a Lustr 2 is 18.3 lbs with a lens, with an incandescent 36 deg. at 14 lbs.

 

[SteveB]

Well not really. They certainly do feel heavier than an incandescent, but according to the documentation, a Lustr 2 is 18.3 lbs with a lens, with an incandescent 36 deg. at 14 lbs.

But agree that a different mindset is needed when using. It's a $2500 fixture, not $400. Use a MegaClamp. Use a 1-1/2 pipe and Rota Lock clamp instead of an old style side arm.

 

[soundlight]

Definitely check out all the options and demo them in person, but I'd strongly recommend the Chauvet Ovation E-910FC as well as Chuavet's HD lens tubes. Fantastic quality of light and the tubes get gobos tack sharp, I use them all the time with a company that I program for in NYC. They have a 10 channel mode that gives you variable color temp white presets which is handy for nailing white front light. If you have any questions about them I'm sure @Ben Dickmann would be glad to answer them!

For any additive LED leko, you will need the soft focus diffuser for the gobo slot if you want to have gobos out of focus or soft focus shutter cuts (but you can also just use R114/R119/R132 in the gel frame for soft focus shutter cuts).

 

[JChenault]

Having not used, but have been in the audience of a show using tons of Series 2, they're distracting to me.
I know my eyes to funny things because I can walk in a room and tell that a projector is DLP (vs LCD) because I can see the rainbow from the spinning color wheel, so it might be the same phenomenon with the S4 LEDs.

I’m curious. Do you perhaps wear glasses that are rather thick? I was very myopic such that when I looked at an incandescent lamp with R80 I could see separate red and blue color images due to the thickness of my lens. Since cataract surgery that has gone away.

So it could be that your sensitivity to LED is due to thick glasses.

Or I could be completely wrong.

 

[tjrobb]

I’m curious. Do you perhaps wear glasses that are rather thick? I was very myopic such that when I looked at an incandescent lamp with R80 I could see separate red and blue color images due to the thickness of my lens. Since cataract surgery that has gone away.

So it could be that your sensitivity to LED is due to thick glasses.

Or I could be completely wrong.

I experience this frequently on deep blues. My diopter is -7 or more; the edge of my field of view is curved and deep blue fixtures have a defined distance between the source (where the light should be) and the light (where I see it). However, I don't have issues with non-incandescent sources.