LEDs for house/worklights

[Jeff Lelko]

Hi all,

I'm helping to determine the viability of replacing house/work lights with a current LED option. The specific venue in question is about a 50x100ft rectangle with an 18ft ceiling height. The current houselights are wall-mounted sconces, and during cleaning and load-in/out a number of ceiling-mounted 400w metal halide worklights are used. Given the amount of attention LED retrofits have had over the past few years, the idea has come up if both the houselights and the worklights can be replaced with a single LED solution. My question is if there are any products currently on the market that can deliver a somewhat equivalent output to the 400w worklights. 50FC is a ballpark minimum illuminance and full color mixing is desired. Has anyone here done anything similar? I have yet to really calculate anything, but my first thought is to consider something along the lines of the Elation SixPar Z19. They at least seem to have enough output at a wide angle. The Fuze Par Z120 also comes to mind, but would need to be used in higher multiples to get enough brightness. Is there anything else out there worth looking at? I'm only interested in the viability of current market offerings to do this - don't want to talk the logistics of control/electrical/mounting/etc. Thanks!

-Jeff

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Assuming color mixing, not white or tuneable white, you might look at The Light Source, https://www.thelightsource.com/products/hl-series-rgbw-151 among them.

The Altman Chalice in the 50 and 100 watt versions would work. Unfortunately it doesn't appear they have the newer 70 and 150 in color mixing or not yet.

And you could certainly look at the ETC D60.

All of those in the right layout ought to do what you want well. I don't have hands on experience with them.

 

[Michael K]

There's also the new Ovation Fresnels, come in WW, RGBA-L, and 6 color variable white (similar to ETC's x7), which look quite nice, the color mixing units go from 30 out to 85 degrees, while the WW only goes to 69 degrees. After scrolling through some listings I also found the ROBE ROBIN ParFect 150 which looks like it could have some interesting uses, about the same output with an RGBW system, but 3.8 to 60 degree zoom.

Find a few fixtures you like and do a shootout in your space before you make the final call, and let us know whet you go with, and how it turns out!

Edit: The Rogue R2 Wash is also in the same price and output range, although a little overkill for work/house lights!

 

[RickR]

The Prescolite Megalum fixture will do over 16,000 lumens from about 150w. https://www.hubbell.com/prescolite/...ial-Indoor-Lighting/Cylinder/MC10LED/p/213001
They also make a recessed version, but they are all white light. Many others make 5-10,000 lumen fixtures so that you would just need a few more units.

The brightest color wash fixtures I know of are ColorKinetics ColorReach http://www.colorkinetics.com/Products/Application/Flood-Lighting/
270w but not so efficient, only 10,000 lumens. RGBA or RGBW

None of these are cheap, but they are rock solid dependable units. Fantastic dimming with the EldoLED DMX dimming driver that many brands will use if you ask. If you don't need dimming for your work lights then there are hundreds of other options in the architectural lighting market.

 

[Jeff Lelko]

Thanks so much for the input everyone! I really appreciate it. Being more into the stage and concert lighting I didn’t how many applications exist on the architectural side of things. Let me dig into some of these options and report back. I know that none of these will be cheap (and so do the facility owners), but we at least wanted to look at the feasibility side of things first. One question I have in regards to using the stagelight approach versus the pendant approach - would dust present a problem with non-IP65 units? I know from my moving light experience that more often than not when a unit “dies” it’s often due to dust buildup that prevents adequate cooling...and/or a fan that failed without notice leading to the same result. The reason I first mentioned units such as the SixPar or Fuze is because they’re IP65 and thus sealed for dust with no moving parts such as fans that can quit and take the unit with it. Is this something I should be worried about here too, especially given that these units will not be accessible for routine inspection? Thanks again!

 

[Jim allen]

Hi all,

I'm helping to determine the viability of replacing house/work lights with a current LED option. The specific venue in question is about a 50x100ft rectangle with an 18ft ceiling height. The current houselights are wall-mounted sconces, and during cleaning and load-in/out a number of ceiling-mounted 400w metal halide worklights are used. Given the amount of attention LED retrofits have had over the past few years, the idea has come up if both the houselights and the worklights can be replaced with a single LED solution. My question is if there are any products currently on the market that can deliver a somewhat equivalent output to the 400w worklights. 50FC is a ballpark minimum illuminance and full color mixing is desired. Has anyone here done anything similar? I have yet to really calculate anything, but my first thought is to consider something along the lines of the Elation SixPar Z19. They at least seem to have enough output at a wide angle. The Fuze Par Z120 also comes to mind, but would need to be used in higher multiples to get enough brightness. Is there anything else out there worth looking at? I'm only interested in the viability of current market offerings to do this - don't want to talk the logistics of control/electrical/mounting/etc. Thanks!

-Jeff

Why do you want to spend the money for color mixing for house and work lights?? ETC has several LED fixtures that are specifically for house lighting and would work for works also and they are BRIGHT. Some of them are wireless DMX control - which would save the cost of running DMX cable to the lights

 

[dicgleason]

These are architectural lights not stage lights (?) We just had our arena converted to LED. I get my bulbs from a company called Lightdisty (lightdisty.com) and they have a really knowledgeable people.

 

[gafftaper]

I think you'll find your budget prefers two solutions. Replace your Metal Halide work lights with Cheap non-dimmable LED Flood/Warehouse lights. I replaced three 500 Watt tungsten "theater style" work lights on each electric with five 60 watt LED warehouse lights I got from Amazon for about $40 each when you add the connector, c-clamp, and safety cable. Nothing fancy. Can't dim them. Lumen output increased dramatically, energy consumption cut way down. Very little cost to the budget. Win all they way around. There are a lot of options out there in cheap LED Flood/Warehouse lights, find one that fit's your needs.

Then, put the money you save into one of the more expensive high quality dimmable house light options others have mentioned above.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

In a black box situation, which is how I interpreted the original post, there is not a good reason to separate house and work into different systems for the majority of the space. Its all LED, and neither lamp life nor zoning (house and stage) is issue.

And I'm finding more and more clients like the option to have colored house lights. Why not be able to have a "blue room" for house lights when it is easy and costs relatively little more? One more tool for the lighting designer. And besides, in a flexible "black box" space, and with the control of LED, you now have a perfectly zonable lighting system where the ones over the "stage" for a production can be used for the production.

 

[EWCguy]

I'm interested in how this pans out. I'm looking for a basic top-flood for electrics above our proscenium stage, primarily for concert band performances that need the top light for reading music on stands vs front light blinding them as they read/play. My install would not be as worklights, though they could double. Color changing would be nice in my application, though, to be more versatile for general theatric use.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

The early reports from the first orchestra shell I did with color changing LEDs (ColorSource PARs) has been positive. They also like the natural - easy - zoning and ability to highlight a section.

 

[SteveB]

In a black box situation, which is how I interpreted the original post, there is not a good reason to separate house and work into different systems for the majority of the space. Its all LED, and neither lamp life nor zoning (house and stage) is issue.

And I'm finding more and more clients like the option to have colored house lights. Why not be able to have a "blue room" for house lights when it is easy and costs relatively little more? One more tool for the lighting designer. And besides, in a flexible "black box" space, and with the control of LED, you now have a perfectly zonable lighting system where the ones over the "stage" for a production can be used for the production.

Only thought on this is the work lights do need to light where the set is getting installed and painted, where as the house lights need to only light the seating platforms. Thus I can see where a general room work lighting scheme is desired, the house/audience lighting really can be more specific. I like the idea of being able to do other-than-no color for audience seating.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Only thought on this is the work lights do need to light where the set is getting installed and painted, where as the house lights need to only light the seating platforms. Thus I can see where a general room work lighting scheme is desired, the house/audience lighting really can be more specific. I like the idea of being able to do other-than-no color for audience seating.

I agree but where set is this show, the same area may be audience next show. Isnt that the case?

 

[SteveB]

I agree but where set is this show, the same area may be audience next show. Isnt that the case?

Very true, sometimes

We are currently recommending a renovation of our black box. In general the entire room always needs work lighting and it can be LED and bright, plus useful to paint under.

But we are recommending a separate set of house lights that can either be DMX dimmed, or line voltage dimmed (as per budget allowance). We will then adjust the house lights to wherever the audience is seated for that configuration. Color changing might be nice in this case.

We don’t need the generic works dimmed or color changing at all and don’t want that, plus want them relay controlled so any user can hit the switch.

Seems to make the case for separate fixtures in our particular application

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

It so easy with controls today to have the function you describe with one set of lighting, and probably less expensive, plus I see having to "adjust" which sounds like rehanging and focusing just more work.

 

[Van]

I've had several Specs cross my desk recently requiring the Lithonia D2 series lately. Crazy expensive for a work light but very bright.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I've had several Specs cross my desk recently requiring the Lithonia D2 series lately. Crazy expensive for a work light but very bright.

For interior use?

 

[Van]

For interior use?

Yep.

 

[Jeff Lelko]

Thanks again for the input. It's been a busy week/weekend!

Why do you want to spend the money for color mixing for house and work lights?? ETC has several LED fixtures that are specifically for house lighting and would work for works also and they are BRIGHT. Some of them are wireless DMX control - which would save the cost of running DMX cable to the lights

The honest answer is that the venue management probably saw an article/flyer/video somewhere and caught on to the somewhat recent trend of venues refitting their houselights with something more artistic and is curious what it would cost to do this in their own venue. Bill is correct in his assumption. The color flexibility is nice to have, not to mention that occasionally this venue is rented out - it's one more thing to add as a selling point.

While I appreciate the input from those suggesting the venue sticks with two separate systems, I don't feel that this would really be the way to go here. If the work/investment is going to be done they strongly want an all-in-one solution...at least until they see the quote, then maybe they'll budge a bit. My thoughts are in line with Bill though - now knowing that fixtures of sufficient output exist to serve both purposes I'd be surprised if retaining a dual system is cheaper, especially when you take into account the cost of installation logistics for both systems versus one.

I agree but where set is this show, the same area may be audience next show. Isnt that the case?

Generally yes, correct again. It's not a complete Black Box Theater, but close enough to it for our assumptions. As much as I'd love to just hang a few dozen Rogue Washes for complete flexibility I don't think that's really the right answer either. I think some excellent products have been already mentioned here and I'm definitely planning to look into those before making a recommendation to anyone. Thanks again!

 

[epimetheus]

I've had several Specs cross my desk recently requiring the Lithonia D2 series lately. Crazy expensive for a work light but very bright.

I would strongly suggest staying away from these Lithonia fixtures. In my day job I spec'ed and installed about 40 D2 & D3 fixtures for a substation. We've had at least 5 failures in less than 3 years. We've also heard distributor reports of the same, short life spans.