Lee Color Filters..

[danTt]

Hi Friends...

Was pondering today as I embarked on a gel organization project the reasoning behind the numbering of Lee Filters. It seems to me there is little rhyme or reason to why a gel gets a particular number with Lee, while in Rosco you can at least have a general sense of the color by the first number... I wonder if Lee loses any business to this? I found a number of really nice Lee colors today going through the decades of saved gel, but I couldn't tell you any of their numbers now! Maybe it's just because I work so much more with designers that use rosco colors so it's just in my head, but I have to imagine the rosco numbering is much easier for designers to pick up as well.

On a semi-related note... I know that Rosco markets and sells E-Color as a Lee equivilent.. to those of you out there who are much more picky than me, how close is it? I have designers that don't like the substition, but I personally can't notice a difference (although I haven't done a side by side shootout).

 

[danTt]

And, even more fun when it comes to E-Color... if Lee 079 is Lee's copy of R79, is Rosco E079 any different from R79?

 

[BernsBright]

It's a long story that started with a now antiquated color system developed in Europe. Prior to systems, like the various CIE standards, RGB values, CMYK, Hex, and all the other ways we can now describe color, they needed a way to delineate colors. Unfortunately, the system wasn't robust enough for the advent of precise color variation and as new colors were added, Lee's adaptation of that system got messier. They do produce a few variations of their swatchbook, though I find all the color reference/page reference cross referencing to be frustrating. I do like their online tools, so I'll often use their website to get started in building a palette, then go to the swatchbook to doublecheck any colors with which I'm not 100% familiar. As for variation between R79, E079, L079- and other "clone" colors- sometimes I see the differences, sometimes not. It depends on the source, subject and viewer. Keep in mind that the processes and materials for these products are all different. Polycarbonate filters are body colored, polyesters are dyed. Some colors will never be seen again because you just can't add the same color as they did when gelatin was king.

 

[derekleffew]

I wonder if Lee loses any business to this?

Flip the question around: Does the (now-defunct) GAMcolor or ApolloGel's numbering system (both based on primary wavelength) offer a distinct advantage over the others?

As said above, Lee Filters offers the "Designers Edition" swatchbook, which purists and old-timers abhor. You'll get my "Numeric Edition" from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Lighting designers find masochistic delight in learning a color numbering system that makes no sense. Perhaps it has something to do with "suffering for one's art" or something.

And, even more fun when it comes to E-Color... if Lee 079 is Lee's copy of R79, is Rosco E079 any different from R79?

Copy of a copy of a copy? Didn't you ever see the Michael Keaton movie Multiplicity?

 

[variable]

As said above, Lee Filters offers the "Designers Edition" swatchbook, which purists and old-timers abhor. You'll get my "Numeric Edition" from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

I'm not exactly an old timer or a purist, but I've been designing a couple decades now and the "Designer's edition" is pretty damn useful when trying to parse out the very subtle differences between Lee gels. I mean, I know a lot of techs who scoff at the idea of a "designer's" edition, but they tend to scoff at the idea of a Designer in the first place ("What, if it's a comedy, R33, drama: 02, who needs a designer?")

That said, I can't even function without the numeric edition because once you've found your color in the Designer book you will never find it again without the numeric book.

 

[variable]

if Lee 079 is Lee's copy of R79, is Rosco E079 any different from R79?

Well, like most matches L79 looks pretty different from R79, especially under an HPL lamp, so I imagine E079 is an attempt to reconcile the difference.

 

[JohnD]

Furthermore, the Lee 1xx colors are the Lee versions of Cinemoid, and so by extension the Rosco Ecolor is a copy of a copy of Cinemoid.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

the (now-defunct) GAMcolor

Can I see that in writing please?

 

[JohnnyAmos]

I'm not exactly an old timer or a purist, but I've been designing a couple decades now and the "Designer's edition" is pretty damn useful when trying to parse out the very subtle differences between Lee gels. I mean, I know a lot of techs who scoff at the idea of a "designer's" edition, but they tend to scoff at the idea of a Designer in the first place ("What, if it's a comedy, R33, drama: 02, who needs a designer?")

That said, I can't even function without the numeric edition because once you've found your color in the Designer book you will never find it again without the numeric book.

I have been out of the business for a while now, but I have an oldish Lee Designers Edition with a numeric index in the back. All I need to do is look up the number in the back and flip to the page number indicated. The page number in printed in large text on the back of each page.

 

[variable]

I have been out of the business for a while now, but I have an oldish Lee Designers Edition with a numeric index in the back. All I need to do is look up the number in the back and flip to the page number indicated. The page number in printed in large text on the back of each page.

Hmm, is that so? *

*sheepishly ambles off to check the back of his designers swatch book...

 

[MikeJ]

Some color Substitutions are almost exact, and others have show more differences. R26 and L106, are interchangeable, just don't mention it to the designer that you made a substitution, and they will not notice. You can go as far as swapping 1/2 cto for 1/4, or even full, in follow spots, depending on what type of spots the designer is used to having, simply because there is a lot of variation in in lamps and reflector color temp between brands an models.

Am I advocating changing colors without permission and lying to people? No, but when its close, and that is the only option, don't even mention it. Just having a tours plot gelled, circuited, and patched correctly when they arrive, is probably going to make them think that it is one of the better days on their tour. No reason to mention a tiny substitution, if they are already in a great mood.

 

[techieman33]

Some color Substitutions are almost exact, and others have show more differences. R26 and L106, are interchangeable, just don't mention it to the designer that you made a substitution, and they will not notice. You can go as far as swapping 1/2 cto for 1/4, or even full, in follow spots, depending on what type of spots the designer is used to having, simply because there is a lot of variation in in lamps and reflector color temp between brands an models.

Am I advocating changing colors without permission and lying to people? No, but when its close, and that is the only option, don't even mention it. Just having a tours plot gelled, circuited, and patched correctly when they arrive, is probably going to make them think that it is one of the better days on their tour. No reason to mention a tiny substitution, if they are already in a great mood.

Totally agree there. 95% of the time when I've had a tour come through I've never heard a word about any of the substitutions I've made as long as they were reasonably close. Pointing out that you made the substitution just means that there is a chance they'll get an attitude about things that it's to late to fix. I made the substitution because I didn't have the color, and throwing a fit about it isn't going to help anyone. It's not like I can just run down to the local big box and grab some of the correct color. That grumpy attitude also tends to carry throughout the day and make everyone's day worse. I always try to get the correct gel they spec but when I get a plot and color list the week of or week before a show it isn't always possible.

 

[variable]

I gotta agree with the sentiment that just having everything patched and focused when it's time to build cues is a glorious thing. It's the difference between having to work extra hours for nothing extra (most designers get a flat fee, so a badly hung rep plot is just a lot of unpaid time in our ledgers). Which is why I usually don't mention it when an obvious substitution like 1/2 to 1/4 has occurred.