Leprecon dimmers - any opinions?

[somebodyrocks]

Alright... I'm just trying to see if anyone has any opinions about Leprecon dimmers (VX or MX series.. or similar).

I've been working in my school's auditorium, and currently we have 2 Leprecon dimmers. 1 manufactured in 1998, 1 manufactured in 2008. The one from 1998 is going a little bonkers, so the school is thinking about buying 2 additional dimmer packs (one to replace the old one, and one as a backup). Since the school already has an established relationship with Leprecon (or rather, a dealer), I was thinking of suggesting to them to purchase 2 Leprecon Dimmers... but I figured I'd ask you all if you thought these things are worth it, or if there is something else I should look at for a similar price. The school has no real budget, but our "auditorium fund" has between $50,000 and $75,000 in it (They're not really sure how much because they just bought a bunch of stuff and some of it is being funded from the county-level), so budget is not really a big issue.

Thanks!

 

[len]

Some on CB don't like Leprecon. I've used their shoebox dimmers and smaller (12 channel) boards on one-offs a number of times and never had any problems. I've never used any of their rack dimmers. Most people who are looking for rack dimmers buy ETC.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

Personally, I've always been a big fan of Leprecon dimmers. I know some people don't like them, but in my experiences, they're bulletproof and there is a good reason they have been a staple of the touring industry and rental houses for years. I know someone is going to come on here are and go, "OMG WHY U NOT JUST BUY SENSORS?" but Leprecon's work fine and are a cost effective option.

I have had a ULD be a bit wonky, but considering it was a rental from a house that does the bare dirty minimum to keep their gear going, it said a lot that it was the only one I have had trouble with.

I have used the MX and VX on several occasions and they stood up to the rigors of a 3 week outdoor show covered with a tarp for protection.

Also being a Michigander I'm always pro-Michigan business, but that's just my personal bias.

 

[derekleffew]

...I know someone is going to come on here are and go, "OMG WHY U NOT JUST BUY SENSORS?" ...

Any why do you suppose that might be? Perhaps it's because Sensor is the most popular dimmer in the world? ETC folk: Have you ever stated how many Sensor dimmer modules have been built since 1992?

...but Leprecon's work fine and are a cost effective option.

I'll agree that Leprecons work fine, but might argue the "cost effective" part. A Sensor+ SP6, 12x2.4kW is not that much more than a VX2400. SmartPack nicely fills the void for those who cannot afford Sensors. Personally I find Sensor's control and dimmer modularity invaluable at any price, and am willing to pay the extra for this feature.

 

[mstaylor]

I can't speak to the cost differences between Sensor and Leprecons, but having used both I would say either is a fine choice. I have used Leprecons since analog days and have been very happy with them.
What is the dimmer that is a little bonkers doing?

 

[soundlight]

We have 5 rolling racks of Leprecon dimmers where I work (I think it's all VX series 1 and series 2) - (2) 24 racks, (2) 36 racks, and (1) 48 rack. None of them have had issues in my time testing them, and other folks at work have said that they are very reliable and just don't have any issues. They're great racks, smaller than an equivalent sensor rack, and all in all I'd have no issues recommending them for an install - if they can hold up to being trucked all over the place for rentals and productions for as many years as the company has had them, well, they're good dimmers.

The bonkers dimmer may be an easy fix - certainly cheaper to get a quick fix from Leprecon than to buy a whole new pack. Leprecon dimmers last for a long time.

As with other posts - I've used both Leprecon and ETC dimmers, and both are great. No real reasons to not recommend either brand.

 

[lightingguy1]

Does Leprecon stand behind their products as much as ETC Does?

 

[DuckJordan]

Does Leprecon stand behind their products as much as ETC Does?

They may not have as much Customer service as ETC but you also pay for that service with a more expensive system.

 

[FatherMurphy]

Does Leprecon stand behind their products as much as ETC Does?

I'll put it this way... LD-2400 dimmer pack serial number 1014, built in the late 70's, is installed and working at a church in my town... and I can still get parts for it. The only parts they don't still have for their legacy products are metalwork pieces that wouldn't be cost-efficient to rerun, and components that their suppliers have discontinued.

As for the MX/VX series, these are both the same basic units, except VX has dual SCRs on the power modules, and MX has a single diac as the main switching component on the module, and they might have a different make of circuit breakers. Everything else is identical, except the sticker on the front.

The two main breakdown modes I've seen are bearings going out on the cooling fans, and less common, the brain card acting up in some fashion. I've only seen one dimmer module die of natural causes (although phase-crossing short circuits downstream of the rack have taken out a couple).

Big rack vs. stack of smaller racks is a philosophical question - if the brain card dies on a 96 channel rack, you lose the whole rack. If a brain card dies on one twelve pack in a stack of eight, you lose twelve dimmers. A slight amount of higher cost due to duplication might provide some needed redundancy later on. Your mileage may vary.

My favorite Leprecon MX durability story is when a neighboring production company had a volunteer electrician hook their MX dimmers up to a generator... that was set for 480 volt output. One 19 cent component on each brain card smoked, and everything else survived - I replaced the component for them, and the racks are still running some eight years later.

If you've already checked your DMX signal, and it's definitely the one brain card 'going bonkers', for a few hundred bucks you could get a new brain card and be off and running again. If you've got two packs, the cards can be swapped from one to the other, and see if the problem follows. If your local dealer doesn't have a service person who can help you with this, let me know, and I'll help you through it. Don't just dive in yourself, though - once you've opened the covers, you're potentially into the land of live voltage, and you could hurt yourself or the equipment if you don't know what you're doing.

 

[jgaffney7643]

I love their control devices, but I'm not wild about the dimmers. I was using an old-ish one on a road show in October, an -MX I believe, we bought it second hand, and upon plugging it in, it arced and blew up in my face. I may be biased, but I wouldn't buy another one.

 

[mstaylor]

I am the opposite jgaffney7643, I like their dimmers and their current boards are OK. I really liked their analog boards but their current boards have some limitations. Any company can have a poorly maintained rack. Dimmers need a little TLC.

 

[SteveB]

I love their control devices, but I'm not wild about the dimmers. I was using an old-ish one on a road show in October, an -MX I believe, we bought it second hand, and upon plugging it in, it arced and blew up in my face. I may be biased, but I wouldn't buy another one.

Jgaffney, can you explain why the fact that it's a Leprecon that shorted, makes you assume ALL Leprecon dimmers are likewise going to suffer the same fate, thus stopping you from ever using one again ?. Was this an isolated incident, or have you had other instances of Leprecons failing in a likewise manner ?. By your logic, the fact that I had an ETC Sensor 6kw dimmers power cube fail catastrophically last Monday, should make me never want to use an ETC Sensor dimmer ever again. Despite the fact that it's the first time for my system to have a power cube fail, with 500 some odd dimmers in use for 6 years and that there are literally hundreds of thousands of these dimmers in use world wide.

As my $.02, I get a road tour called Chamber Theater, out of Boston, in my space probably 3-4 times per year, for the past 12 years or so. They travel with a lighting package provided by High Output from Boston that includes both the older LP 6 packs as well as newer models, probably a dozen packs used per show, all as one-offs used by a crew that is in the early stages of their careers, thus somewhat limited technical skills on occasion. I have seen 30 some odd tours from this company and have never seen a pack problem. They plug in and they work, and that is generally the reputation that Leprecon dimmer have, IMO.

 

[somebodyrocks]

Hey, just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has given input thus far!

As for the dimmer that is going a little "bonkers"- I've been waiting a few days to respond to this thread because I've been trying to re-create the issue we were having. At this point in time, I can't do it. If I recall correctly, we had it on before and things were operating on it and it would randomly shut off. I thought it was an overheating issue - it's pretty dusty up where they are stored and the fans/vents (and filters, if they have any?) have never been cleaned. Since these are hardwired in though, I am not comfortable opening them up (even with their mains breaker off) to service them in anyway, so I have to wait until a County BOE Electrician comes in if I want them unwired.

Alright, so our dimmers are stored above stage level on a shelf (no rack because quite frankly, these probably weren't installed by people who knew what they were doing). So when you walk up to the dimmers, all of the stagepin connectors are facing you, and on the opposite side against a brickwall is the dimmer's breakers and assorted buttons. So if a channel's breaker kicks-off, you have to physically turn the dimmer enough to get your hand back there. So when this "bonkers" dimmer shut off initially, I went to pick it up.. as bad as this sounds, I grabbed the electrical mains going into and one of the corners of the dimmer to rotate it, and when my hand picked up the mains, the dimmer turned on. This leads me to believe there may be a lose terminal or something inside causing an electrical issue. I'm not sure though.. if this sounds familiar to anyone, and if there is a simple (and safe) way to service it, let me know.

As of right now, the dimmer hasn't shut off again - so until it does again, I don't have much to troubleshoot.

Some pics of the mess of dimmers is attached.

 

[mstaylor]

Until the electrician gets there, I would unplug the cable going to the wonky dimmer and check the connections in that plug. It is possible that there is a loose connection and when you moved the dimmer you put it in the right position to make it work.
When you get your electrician there, have him go through all the connections inside. Check the power to the breakers and all the connectors. It is easy for them to come loose over time even if they aren't being moved. Have him blow out the case just because it probably hasn't been done for a while.

 

[Anvilx]

Personally I find Sensor's control and dimmer modularity invaluable at any price, and am willing to pay the extra for this feature.

I am with you on that. I am getting ready to send in my second ETC control module gone awry. (They were both from the same operating environment so it is no surprise)

 

[mixmaster]

I tend to shy away from Leprecon lighting equipment myself, but my most of my experience is not recent, therefore may not be relevant to their current equipment

In times past I've used both their analog and digital boards and dimmers in various systems, some installed gear, some rental. I've never once had a show with leprecon gear happen without some sort of problem. I've had dimmer quit working mid show, saw a rack of dimmer go up in sparks a cause an unexpected intermission, had several "shoebox" packs just not do anything, and had a digital console once that lost it's memory, twice during the same show. Losing the memory, including all cues and the patch half way thu act 1 was bad enough, but we rebooted during the intermission, reloaded from disk, and the **** thing flaked out 2 scenes from the end of the show. At some point I just decided that I probably won't willing choose to use Leprecon gear if I have another option.

OTOH 3 of the last 4 venues I worked in consistently have ETC boards and dimmers, and while I'm not sure I like a few of the features of our new elements, the only mechanical issues I have ever been aware of was one old board with a few ghost channels. Never had a show stopper.

FWIW

 

[mjw56]

FWIW, i have been working with 4-12pack VX-2400 Dimmers since late 2006 and havent had any problems at all. they were cleaned for the first time about a month ago. We have dropped a few phases before and what was on the working phase kept on going no problem, we did shut off the disconnect when we figured it out though, and didnt turn it back on untill we knew we had all 3 phases back online. We run ours off an express 125 with a Fleenor Preset 10 thrown in too. My only complaint is that the fans never stop spinning, probably due to the preset 10 feeding it a constant dmx signal. Leprecon has a pdf of how to replace a control module,literally trakes 4 quarter turns, an unplug of a connector and a firm tug to remove the brain. (section 6.2 of the VX Manual).
http://www.leprecon.com/productfiles/212119FVXMX1.pdf

 

[n1ist]

It's hard to see from your picture, but it looks like you are feeding your dimmers with independant conductors, not a cable. The clamp, however, looks like one designed for SO cable, and will not provide proper strain releif for 4 or 5 individual wires. I would shut off power at the disconnect for the dimmer that is misbehaving to avoid further damage, have your electician check all of the dimmers for loose connections, and preferrably wire them with the correct cable and clamp.
/mike

 

[FatherMurphy]

VX/MX dimmers built as 'stand alone' packs come from the factory prewired with tails of individual conductors, as shown in the photo. Since 2400 watt packs take 80 amps per leg, iirc it's #4 wire per conductor, and finding five conductor #4 SO that's still flexible enough behave would be a challenge, whereas the individuals drape easily.

If wiggling the power leads made the problems stop, then you probably are looking at a lug that's worked loose, and you were seeing things blink as electrical contact made and broke. Over time, the copper wire squishes out from under the set screws, and the screws need to be checked every so often for tightness, especially with fine stranded wire. The factory usually gets things pretty tight during construction, but sometimes an installing electrician will take apart things that don't need to be separated, and not get them back together properly.

For cleaning, turn off the mains, and turn the dimmers so you can get to the fronts. The front faceplate comes off with four quarter-turn thumbscrews, and all the cards come out the front. The brain across the top simply slides out (no connectors), and the individual channel have one small ribbon cable, and also pull out forwards. The heat sink on the dimmer cards is the part most in need of cleaning, simple compressed air will do the trick. Dust elsewhere is less important. Putting it back together, make sure everything is firmly seated, and that the ribbon cables are lined up right - get a pin off to either side, and the channel won't respond. Put the front cover back on before powering back up and testing each channel.

The fans are always turning slowly whenever power is present, signal presence is irrelevant. Thermal sensors kick them up to full speed when the unit gets warm from use, and drop them back to idle when cool. At least they don't sound like a 747 taking off...

 

[somebodyrocks]

VX/MX dimmers built as 'stand alone' packs come from the factory prewired with tails of individual conductors, as shown in the photo. Since 2400 watt packs take 80 amps per leg, iirc it's #4 wire per conductor, and finding five conductor #4 SO that's still flexible enough behave would be a challenge, whereas the individuals drape easily.

If wiggling the power leads made the problems stop, then you probably are looking at a lug that's worked loose, and you were seeing things blink as electrical contact made and broke. Over time, the copper wire squishes out from under the set screws, and the screws need to be checked every so often for tightness, especially with fine stranded wire. The factory usually gets things pretty tight during construction, but sometimes an installing electrician will take apart things that don't need to be separated, and not get them back together properly.

For cleaning, turn off the mains, and turn the dimmers so you can get to the fronts. The front faceplate comes off with four quarter-turn thumbscrews, and all the cards come out the front. The brain across the top simply slides out (no connectors), and the individual channel have one small ribbon cable, and also pull out forwards. The heat sink on the dimmer cards is the part most in need of cleaning, simple compressed air will do the trick. Dust elsewhere is less important. Putting it back together, make sure everything is firmly seated, and that the ribbon cables are lined up right - get a pin off to either side, and the channel won't respond. Put the front cover back on before powering back up and testing each channel.

The fans are always turning slowly whenever power is present, signal presence is irrelevant. Thermal sensors kick them up to full speed when the unit gets warm from use, and drop them back to idle when cool. At least they don't sound like a 747 taking off...

Thank you - you've definitely told me a lot more than any of the manuals have so far.

School is currently out of session and will return Monday. Hopefully I can get some work in Monday and see if I can get this dimmer working tip-top again. I'll report back with results.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread so far!