Control/Dimming Life span for ETC Congo Jr.

Fountain Of Euph

Active Member
Hi all,

Im trying to spec a new board to replace our ETC Express 24/48. I really like the Congo Jr, and it fits out needs super well. My question is this. We bought the express in 2003. By 2013 it was seriously holding us back, and the lack of fixture patch, custom layouts, and the like is realy a problem.

Are we going to be too late to the party, and is the Congo Jr going to be obsolete in a few years?

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By 2013 it was seriously holding us back, and the lack of fixture patch, custom layouts, and the like
In your question lies the answer. It is not that the board was failing but that technology is moving forward at a very rapid pace! We think we know what we would want in a board today, but we have no idea what tomorrow will bring. To some extent, this promotes the concept of software-based control. In such, you would basically buy the latest and greatest program. I am a bit of an old-timer and like the feel of sliders and knobs under my fingers as compared to keys. Still, if I open my eyes wide enough I can see that there is no way to accurately answer your question. The changes you may have seen over the last ten years will probably be compressed into the next five years. After that, that many more changes may happen in the following two years.
 
Software development for the Cobalt line is alive and well and if you're running Cobalt, you can expect your Congo Jr. to keep running software that is in active development for years to come.

The largest shift in lighting control paradigms these past few years has been to go toward touchscreen interfaces, and to implement software UI's that take advantage of a paradigm built around touchscreens. In that vein, the physical hardware of a Congo Jr. may still be rock solid in a few years, but if you're not equipped with touchscreens it could feel like you've been left in the dust.
 
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I understand your concern about longevity. Nothing will last forever or fulfill all of the needs forever. The Congo Jr. is expandable upto 12 universes worth of outputs.
A new Congo Jr. is a different animal under the hood than the old ones. In terms of hardware, you are just about as protected as you can be when buying any type of technology. The support from ETC is very good as well.
The Congo Jr. today is running Cobalt software. This software is very much in active development. (Disclaimer: I am part of the beta test group for Cobalt and recently purchased a full system for our theater.)
I do not know the pricing among the Congo Jr., Wing, and Cobalt 10. The Cobalt 10 allows for the faders and touchscreens to be on board, as well as allowing for additional external monitors.
For our theater, the system I put together is a Cobalt 20 (primary console), Cobalt Light Server (Back-up), Nomad Puck (Tech Table/Stage Remote), and Gateways.
The Puck is an important part of the system because with it I also have an EOS system if I need it for a touring show.
Let me know if I can help with any other information.
John
 
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What type of performance is primarily held in your venue? While the Cobalt and other preset consoles are greating for a lot of things, including busking, they aren't necessarily as good for others like theater and dance where a move-fade console like the EOS family excels.
 
Thanks everyone for the great responses.

In your question lies the answer. It is not that the board was failing but that technology is moving forward at a very rapid pace! We think we know what we would want in a board today, but we have no idea what tomorrow will bring. Still, if I open my eyes wide enough I can see that there is no way to accurately answer your question.

JD, you have a really good point. This is like playing the Vegas stock exchange. I just want to future retard the board as much as I can. If the school had waited a few years they could have gotten an ION or Congo and we wouldn't be in this problem. I don't know if the console will be in the space for another 12 years. By then DMX may be obsolete and we are all using CAT10... This is tough for a venue with no technical budget.

We are a multi-use concert hall half thrust half proscenium stage. We do a little of everything, from fully staged operas to live jazz to new-age weirdness. ION has some great stuff for us, but I really need the busking equally. Full disclosure I am a former Congo programmer and may be the only person on earth that doesn't like Eos. I'm a bit biased in that regard, although if someone handed me an ION I wouldn't say no...

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Any modern console, be it for lighting or audio should be fully depreciated in 5 years. If you get more then that, great... but don't expect to.
 
T Full disclosure I am a former Congo programmer, and may be the only person on earth that doesn't like Eos. I'm a bit biased in that regard, although if someone handed me an ION I wouldn't say no...

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You would make a correct choice with Congo, especially as you already know the programming language and the way the desk thinks, IMO, and this from a 5 yr. Ion and formerly an Express user. I really have to work hard to make my Ion be a busking desk for ML's and LED's, things that I know are easier on a Congo.

The only thing the Eos software has that Cobalt doesn't (as far as a quick look at the Cobalt manual) is Magic Sheets. These are a game changer on the Eos desks and allow pretty good customization of the touch screens (another game-changer). I would be a very frustrated Ion programmer without TS's and MS's, which make running the desk a ton easier. But in truth, I don't know Congo/Cobalt well enough to tell you that TS and MS makes the Eos desks "better". Possibly the control config on Cobalt makes it less necessary.
 
So 12 yo Express +25 yo Mackie 16ch + 2x 18yo
Mackie 8ch is not normal?

I do have a year old X32...

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Never said you won't get more then that, but have money in the kitty for a replacement in 5 years. The sound world turns over completely in 5 years and stuff that did hit riders no longer does. I'm sure your not having to hit riders but its a good rule of thumb anyway. The last generation of stuff was insane quality wise. I'm not sure if we are seeing that same quality today that we did in the mid-90's. I tell the people with the money to plan to replace everything in 5 years so they can plan for it. I hope to get more then that but I don't want to be the guy getting yelled at when I ask for new gear 3 years before I said we would need it.
 
Only thing the Eos software has that Cobalt doesn't (as far as a quick look at the Cobalt manual) is Magic Sheets.

In Congo these were referred to as Channel Layouts. Probably what they're still referred to as in Cobalt.
 
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Never said you won't get more then that, but have money in the kitty for a replacement in 5 years. The sound world turns over completely in 5 years and stuff that did hit riders no longer does. I'm sure your not having to hit riders but its a good rule of thumb anyway. The last generation of stuff was insane quality wise. I'm not sure if we are seeing that same quality today that we did in the mid-90's. I tell the people with the money to plan to replace everything in 5 years so they can plan for it. I hope to get more then that but I don't want to be the guy getting yelled at when I ask for new gear 3 years before I said we would need it.

That 5 year rule doesn't really apply to lighting. MA introduced the GramdMA in 2001 ?, did an overhaul a few years later, then came out with the MA2 in '07, then Dot 2 this year. ETC certainly doesn't do new console lines every 5 years and if you were an early adopter of an Ion in 2007, you'd be replacing it 8 years later with an.....Ion. Granted the software has changed immensely and the newer versions have SSD and better processors and Win7, layout hasn't changed a bit.

You could easily go 8-10 years for lighting controllers before considering a replacement.
 
Keep in mind also that the Expression software was released in (I think) the late '80's. So it really had quite the shelf life.
 
The base concept of software on a somewhat general purpose computer hardware is the industries best guess at longevity.

Faders have been around as long as electric dimming. Rotating controls date to gas valves, but infinite spin controls go to the late 70's. What gets more complex is abstraction, and that's where software is very useful.

3D gesture control is a few years out.
 
That 5 year rule doesn't really apply to lighting. MA introduced the GramdMA in 2001 ?, did an overhaul a few years later, then came out with the MA2 in '07, then Dot 2 this year. ETC certainly doesn't do new console lines every 5 years and if you were an early adopter of an Ion in 2007, you'd be replacing it 8 years later with an.....Ion. Granted the software has changed immensely and the newer versions have SSD and better processors and Win7, layout hasn't changed a bit.

You could easily go 8-10 years for lighting controllers before considering a replacement.
Unless you look at moving heads and LED fixtures... Then you have to switch to 3 years to 5 years max. Consoles do have a longer shelf life but I expect that to start changing. Just look at all the places that can't give away Mac 700s and colorblasts.
 
Unless you look at moving heads and LED fixtures... Then you have to switch to 3 years to 5 years max. Consoles do have a longer shelf life but I expect that to start changing. Just look at all the places that can't give away Mac 700s and colorblasts.

I don't see console lifespans changing to much. And hopefully the AVO method catches on, and extends the life even more. They offer hardware upgrades on a regular basis to keep the older consoles up to date. Our pearl expert was purchased around 2008, and it got an essentially free hardware upgrade to allow it to run the Titan software. And now for ~$1500 we could get another hardware upgrade that replaces things like the motherboard and cpu to bring it current with the consoles that are being sold today. And from what I've been told the plan is keep offering those upgrades well into the future. In situations like that a console could easily last 10+ years and still be fully able to handle whatever needs come along.
 
This is probably a good time to bring up the fact that the venue's use greatly influences the useful life of gear. Roadhouses that have to fill riders will generally have a much higher turnover of equipment than something like a community theatre. A 5-year-old mover is pretty old in the rental industry, but fairly young in a rep house where it is used in a couple shows per year.
Same with consoles where not much is asked from them aside from being able to handle LEDs and movers seamlessly. The transition from Express to Eos (for example) is one of capability. It's there or it's not. I feel like the immediate future will be more along the lines of ease-of-use upgrades; something will come along that does it better. But I don't think current consoles will be dead in the water (like Express vs Movers) any time soon.
 
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So, kinda hijacking the thread, what is going to be the next big thing in control? The Colorblast fixtures from ETC have a RJ45 port optional...

MNicolai- touch screen
Techieman33- erectorset boards
RickR- 3D gesture control


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