Lifts

[legacy]

I am looking for a source for Hydralic cylinders that can be incorporated into a custom built lift to lift an actor up 6 feet. OR do they make such a thing that can be used for this effect. It needs to not be sluggish and take forever..... thanks

 

[derekleffew]

Can't help you source what you need, but here's an article you may find interesting. In my opinion, lifting an actor 6' is best left to the professionals.

http://www.memagazine.org/backissues/april97/features/hydraul/hydraul.html

 

[legacy]

No disrespect but I have been doing stuff like this for a long time. perhaps in an unsafe way thats why I am looking for a correct peice of equipment thanks for your concern from someone that has lifted an actor playing Jesus from the floor to 29 feet for 5 years now safly I will add

 

[thebikingtechie]

I'm not at all pro, but my guess is the best way would just be a fly system, unless you actually need to see the platform raise.

I have never seen a fast hydraulic system. They all seem to crawl up.

 

[avkid]

I have never seen a fast hydraulic system. They all seem to crawl up.

Ever seen a clear elevator shaft with an Otis safety elevator?

 

[Van]

Ever seen a clear elevator shaft with an Otis safety elevator?

True that but those systems do take a heck of a lot of fluid pumped extremely quickly.


Perhaps, Legacy, a 3'ft pnuematic ram, rigged with a double purchased cable/ chain system might be a quicker way to accomplish this? There are 6 ft hydraulic rams available, and you can get custom ones built by most any good tractor supply/repair place. If you're dead set on hydraulics you may want to try the 3 ft thing as well. a 6ft ram is going to get real expensive real quick, and be real unweildly.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/5Z370

Here's a link to a page on the grainger site. this is to a 38" ram with a 2500 psi capacity. But scroll through the rest of the grainger stuff , there might be something else.

 

[legacy]

thanks guys, This effect is for the gospel according to scrooge where the second ghost will rise up through the floor. My first design was a counter weight driven cable pull with guides to keep it from swaying.. We have done this before for a different program, where the actor was brought up through the floor 11 feet up.. it worked but the pedistal was not needed to lock in place.. and was lowered back down with the actor on it in the dark. being able to secure the platform and make it level with the top is a little more challenging due to pullys etc. The main purpose of this for the illusion is we have another set under hidden by a painted scrim curtain.. and after the ghost is revealed they exit and come down stairs and within 3 mins from the reveal they open the curtain there should be nothing there thanks so far for your thoughts. it has to be kinda fast but I don't want to catapult the guy through the air either LOL

 

[Footer]

You might also want to take a look at getting a scissor type lift that would fit into your plug. They do make small ones just for this type of thing, and they work extremely well because you don't have to worry about the leveling/guiding of the platform. Otherwise, doing guides and cabling it also works, but as you noted its not a rigid if it has to fill and stay in the plug.

 

[avkid]

Locking it in place is not a huge deal.

 

[BillESC]

If you have the understage space, look at Genie material lifts. The forks can be inverted which makes them higher than the mast. Frame them out with wood and you'll be good to go.

 

[derekleffew]

...look at Genie material lifts...

CAUTION. Material handling equipment is not designed or certified for elevating people. Not saying it won't work, just be aware you are intentionally misusing a product and prepare for much litigation should an injury or death occur.

There are rock-n-roll staging companies that rent elevators in all shapes and sizes. Here's two recommendations. (sorry, I couldn't think of one of the names until just now, or I would have posted this as soon as OP asked the question.)
http://www.bandrscenery.com/rentals/index.html
http://www.allaccessinc.com/html_files/rntstg.html#

 

[BillESC]

You could use the Genie Personnal lift then but remove the bucket, buy a set of forks and go from there. It is the exact same unit just outfitted differently.

 

[Logos]

Can I say that you guys live in a different world than I do. Most of what you've been discussing here would be totally not allowed here without qualified pro's doing it. Our equivalent of your OSHA would simply close you.

 

[What Rigger?]

You could use the Genie Personnal lift then but remove the bucket, buy a set of forks and go from there. It is the exact same unit just outfitted differently.

Bill, I gotta agree with Tony, and I would love it if you could further illustrate what you are suggesting 'cause to my mind I can't think of a way to keep that legal/safe/under warranty. Am I gettin' it right: you're talking about modifying a Genie single man lift? I am completely curious.

Then again, we may have moved into verboten territory, too.

 

[BillESC]

Let me see if I can explain the concept.

I will assume there is an eight foot basement under the stage to work in. As you can see in this picture, the Genie lift has a pair of forks on which the load sits. These forks (in the picture) are under hung to the mount, they can also be over hung which makes them higher than the top mast section.
A framed wooden platform large enough for the person to stand on could be bolted to the forks. This platform could be cranked up to be perfectly even with the stage floor. The actor stands on the platform and at cue the stagehand in the basement cranks the stand up to desired height.
These lifts are designed to lift up to 1000 pounds to a height of 26'6". There is no modification and the machine is not being asked to do anything it is not designed to do. It simply lifts things straight up.

 

[avkid]

That seems more reasonable.
The operator must be consistent and not jerk the lift all though.

 

[derekleffew]

If the SLA works like the SuperTower and SuperLift, jerking is not an issue. Even the fastest "crank turner" probably cannot move the platform at a satisfactory speed. And I still say material handling equipment IS NOT to be used to elevate people.

Here's a fun link: http://www.bandrscenery.com/rentals/lifts.html# Click on "MPEG movie", under "Toaster Hydrolift."

For what it's worth, I saw "4'x52''x6-7H Square Elevator Lift" and "25' Zip Lift" in use last night. Had either of the performers been injured, the lawsuit(s) would have been in the $100 million range.

 

[BillESC]

An electric winch is available as an option.

Don't have to mention lawsuits to me. I was once involved with a 125 million dollar lawsuit involving Genie lifts. Anyone remember Curtis Mayfield?

 

[What Rigger?]

Hey Bill, thanks for the photo. Now I see what you mean.

But this humble servant thinks I'd still rather see that "pop up" style of platform over the Genie (mostly 'cause the pop-up sure did look cool when Bon Jovi used it on the 'New Jersey' tour back in the day.)

Hessian 'til the end.

 

[gafftaper]

This just all sounds like a bad idea. As far as I'm concerned this is one of those topics that you either have the budget to do it right or you don't do it at all. Things like the Genie fork lift look good but it's not what they are designed for and you are going to get slammed with a law suit. Modifying a bucket genie lift sounds like an even worse idea.

By the way Logos. How OSHA regulates theater is a very vague and confusing topic. In my state for OSHA laws do not apply. We have our own state industrial safety laws. In the case of schools most of the OSHA laws don't apply because they cover employees, not students. It's a mess. You would think there would be clear rules about using lifts and fly systems but there aren't. Instead it's all buried in other job applications so you often have to be a wizard to just figure out what OSHA has to say. In the safety class I took last summer we were told that there is only one state with theater specific occupational safety laws... no not New York, California, or Nevada... IDAHO! Yep the state that only has two theaters has strict safety laws about rigging.