Control/Dimming Light bases burning out!

jf5264835

Member
In one of my buildings, we had an etc sensor system (the first gen) and everything worked perfectly. But the powers that be replaced it with a new dimming system from Lehigh because the etc system had hit the age limit. On this new dimming system though, lights randomly flicker, and bases will burn out. And on some channels that are set to full, the output voltage is only 77 volts! I wish I could burn the whole thing to dust but alas, I'm stuck with it, so I was wondering if anyone here knew about light bases burning out?
 
I think some of your issues may be unrelated to the dimming system. The lights randomly flickering may be the sockets. As to why you're having an (apparently) sudden wave of bad sockets could be a couple of things. First thing could be the location of the fixtures - Front-of-House, seeing the most usage, can start seeing bad sockets at around ten years of service. Another cause could be operating procedure. What do you do with the "good" lamps that are coming out of the burned sockets? If you're putting them in to other fixtures, you are perpetuating the issue as the arced lamp pins will damage good sockets, and bad sockets will damage good lamps.

How are you metering your power? If it's really 77v, you would see a dramatic decrease in light output. Is that the case? A standard multimeter will not give you an accurate reading on this type of system. You need a true RMS meter.

If you think you have serious issues with the dimming system, I'd contact Lehigh (and/or the people who installed it) first. They have pretty generous warranties on these things.
 
It's when I'm metering a completely empty channel at full but the channel next to it will be 120v. When I say flicker, I mean that for instance, our locking rail lights (just normal 60w lightbulbs) can be set to 100,and if you pay attention will flicker above 100 a lot. As for the burn outs, we have just been filling my office up with them.
We never had any issues with the lights or system (other than basic neglect and not changing house lights) until they put the new one in. The moment the new dimming system was put in, 7 lights burned out.
 
Loose neutral(s) perhaps? I'd have the installing contractor (or someone else if you don't trust them) out to take a look.
 
It's at school, so the only way that would happen is if the dimming rack gave off some "magic smoke".
I would love it if loose wires were the only problem but, I can't even do much myself with my facilities $0.00 budget.
 
1) "hit the age limit"??? Dimmers don't really have that. Some live 40 years! ;)

2) 77 volts? Any old ETC dimmer-doubler adapters around? (the outputed 77 volts.)These won't work on the new system. Also, never measure the output of a dimmer that has no load as the voltage will be quite random.

3) Sockets and base do fail with age. Remember, never put a new lamp in a fixture with a bad socket, and never put a lamp that came from a fixture with a bad socket into another fixture or the problem will spread like cancer.
 
It's a school, so therefore, they have complete idiots who know nothing about the equipment set an age for replacement. It's stupid. To my knowledge the wiring is just straight from dimmer to stage plug, no splitters, or doublers. I have a $0.00 budget + 13 19° lights. It sucks.
 
I know that its hard to knock sense in to a school district and even harder to get them to act, but there has to be a generous budget if they replaced a dimmer rack for no reason. The reason I bring this up because it should not come out of your $0.00 budget to get the lighting system operating satisfactorily. That is a facilities cost, not a departmental cost. Again, I know it can be hard to get them to admit this.
 
Interesting on the service life of the dimmers for replacement but not that of the lamp sockets. Think the above is well onto solution as with metering in ibid to check out first.
 
I don't think your dimming system has anything to do with the burnt bases. Fixtures with arcing sockets must be removed from service until the socket has been replaced.
Perhaps your best bet would be to get a vendors quote for the necessary parts plus a few spare and hand it to your supervisor saying something like "I need these parts to repair those fixtures". He or she will likely look at the bottom line and then hand it off to the secretary to procure. If your supervisor does not want to deal with it take it to the director of maintenance.
 
Up in my part of the world, schools experience and "audit" every few years. Basically an architect firm is hired to inspect everything in the district, to determine what needs to be upgraded/replaced functionally or mechanically. They list everything by importance, and the school board decides how much to budget in a capital project, and they complete the projects by priority until they run out of $.

Makes sense if you are an elected official or high administrator who knows nothing about these things, but notice: there is legally no responsibility to ask those who use the facilities every day. Although some do include us, most get in and out as quickly as possible.

I have found to listen for when this happens in my district, and try to hover the room when they come through. Ask "can I help you", and mention whatever you are working on that needs attention. They have also asked me specific questions like "It looks like you could use some acoustic treatments in this room, what do you think about that?" At that time my reply was "That would be nice, but we also need a new dimmer rack to replace the one that started arcing and shooting blue flashes 15 years ago." ( the new rack was installed the next year)

Also, I created my own list: everything in the room, and what needs to be refurbished or replaced and approximately when. I included things like painting, carpeting, fixtures, acoustics, seating, sound, etc. I formalized the list on a one page document, and explained each need on separate pages.

I asked to have a meeting with the building principal, head custodian, finance officer, and anyone else who would listen, and distributed the list in the room, briefly pointing out each item.

Since that meeting, they have knocked off one major item each year, and pushed for many to be included in the next capital project. I have learned that even though I don't have an auditorium budget, everything I need is included in a budget somewhere, I just need to find the $.

Sockets, lamps, electric work, pulling cable, nuts and bolts: buildings and grounds budget
Wires, computer related, tech: Technology budget
Sound, projection, av related: AV budget
Any contracted repair: repair budget
Other: principal and every administrator has their own budget - ask
Any large expenditure: capital project (district pays very little)

An actual safety issue will be corrected immediately, and not enough light due to damaged fixtures or any other reason would be included. "What happens if the lights flicker as a student approaches the edge of the stage?"

Probably many similarities in budgeting in Texas, but only you know your system. Good luck!
 
It's when I'm metering a completely empty channel at full ...
An SCR dimmer requires a minimal load on them (50-100W) for a true RMS meter to read voltage accurately. The easiest way to do this is to use a two-fer with a stage light plugged in to one female and measure voltage at the other female, observing all safety precautions.

... When I say flicker, I mean that for instance, our locking rail lights (just normal 60w lightbulbs) can be set to 100,and if you pay attention will flicker above 100 a lot. As for the burn outs, we have just been filling my office up with them. ...
If there is a loose or missing neutral, socket voltage can be as high as 208V. Hence "flicker above 100 a lot." This could be causing the burnouts as well as bad sockets. Are there black carbon-like deposits on the lamp pins? Does the filament appear continuous on the "bad" lamps?

Nomenclature: A fixture has a socket, a lamp has a base with pins or contacts.
 
In that case, I think it is very possible that whoever wired the rack did so incorrectly. A missing or loose neutral (which certainly can cause these issues) is a major life safety/potential fire issue, and it needs to be corrected yesterday.

I think you should climb the ladder as high as you can until you get a response. Mention that you could have a loose neutral - electricians take the term very seriously. While the 77v reading at the circuits could be a red herring, the fixtures momentarily getting brighter than 'full' and sockets dropping left and right suggests that there could be a serious wiring problem somewhere. I don't think the dimmer rack is the issue -- it's the person who installed it. But either way, this would be considered an Emergency Call to many electricians. Google Image Search "loose neutral wire" to see why. Every time there's a flicker, there's a big heat-generating arc occurring somewhere.

Where in Texas are you?
 
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Spring, TX.
Us two technical directors would love to blame the dimmer rack because all of its components feel cheep. But it is a matter of safety so, I'm gonna try and have it checked out. I just hate this dimming system. The old one worked perfectly other than it not being in an air conditioned room. This new system just sucks. No rise time, cheep feel, Windows based OS.
 
We don't even have a facility budget. Our auditorium is in a junior high, so legally they don't have to provide any money. They only have for things when they are exploding.
This summer when the building was full of contractors, we gave them our punch list of things that need to be fixed, they looked at it and went, that sucks for you. Then, this past fall, we got a copy of the district construction schematic drawings, and there are things they did in the auditorium that don't even match what the paper says! There are also other issues regarding safety (like a piece of conduit preventing a smoke ventilation hatch from being cranked open) that the district doesn't care about. The contractors were told about it, but never fixed.
 
We don't even have a facility budget. Our auditorium is in a junior high, so legally they don't have to provide any money. They only have for things when they are exploding.
This summer when the building was full of contractors, we gave them our punch list of things that need to be fixed, they looked at it and went, that sucks for you. Then, this past fall, we got a copy of the district construction schematic drawings, and there are things they did in the auditorium that don't even match what the paper says! There are also other issues regarding safety (like a piece of conduit preventing a smoke ventilation hatch from being cranked open) that the district doesn't care about. The contractors were told about it, but never fixed.

Sounds like you need to find someone with a conscience. Somebody has to care that they aren't getting what they pay for, and general safety. Outside means can be pursued also, but that can be extreme. I'd try the company and see what they say.

Is this school public or private?
 
How recent is the install? If it's a relatively new install, I'd bet that there is an active warranty.

Does your district have an electrician? Surely they have someone. I'd get them on your side to either recommend/expedite remediation, or make the corrections themselves if they're qualified. I know that there is concern about the budget (or lack thereof), but the scope of the project is unknown. The right people need to be made aware that this is not only a nuisance, but a potentially serious electrical problem which could cost the building and lives if it becomes uncontrollable.
 
The closest thing to a warranty is having the contractors come back. (fat chance)
I think the install was this summer. For sure less than a year.
 

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