Light System Help

Hi, I work at my high school which was just remodeled a few years ago. After the remodel we've been running an entirely new system that we've barely scratched the surface of. We've got a leviton system with a 8724GX Light board. All of it works great but we barely know how to use it. We don't have particularly amazing fixtures, ETC S4's, revolutions, fernells and parnells (I think I spelled that right). At this point we still consider it to be the epitome of cool when we get to use our revolutions on a show. For any reason whatsoever. I'd just like some help figuring out how our system works and how to use it better.
Also some opinions on what's better fixture wise would be cool. I saw the Varilites and was thinking "And we wanted a bunch of revolutions". I've also heard of some mythical mover that's digital and can create shapes and colors of whatever type you want (so basically a projector with a 35,000 lumen output). If someone could confirm the existence of such a thing and provide a link, it would be cool.
Last thing. We have some (colortran? I want to say colortran. I know it's a subsidiary of leviton) DMX control boxes (we just call them black boxes) and it would be cool to know how to program them. I'd really like to get those cool new touch screen DMX panels, but something tells me that won't happen any time soon.
 
And I forgot to add, We really want new wireless clear-coms, but they're extraordinarily expensive, any alternatives or suggestions on how to get them cheaper would be nice.
 
Just a couple of quick comments - Your "fernell" is a fresnel, pronounced with a silent S. Parnell should be parnel. The "mythical light" is one of these: DL.3 . They are pretty nifty fixtures when used well. Also, I would argue that there isn't really one fixture that is inherently better than any others. It's all about what you need them for. Would you use hundreds of fresnels for a rock concert? Not likely, though you might use a handful of S4s. On the other side of the coin, would you use 35 DL3s and a rig of 200 Mac 2K movers for Hamlet? Not usually.
 
Your first order of business ought to be to go to all of the manufactures websites and look for product literature, then spend some time reading it. This will tell you what you can do with your gear and how to do it. From what I can tell it sounds like a decent rig, but as marshallpope said it really depends one what you are doing with it. So what are you doing with it? Also Keep in mind is that movers aren't "all that", sure they are great for a lot of things, but I feel that one should really master conventionals first.
 
Well, the revolutions may not be the "best" moving head, (again, depending on what you are doing with it), the fresnels are great for color washes and fill light, and the source 4s are the most popular ellipsoidal ever. With more then 2 million sold (at least whenever the wiki was updated, thanks Derek) it must have something right!

If you post either pictures of things you don't know how to use, we can help a little more. Or at least, specific things you would like to learn.

I would suggest you look at the famous Gafftaper Method( use the search function to find it), instead of getting insanely expensive movers.

And, why do you want to get wireless clearcoms? They are nice, but as you said, stupidly expensive and not the most durable thing, and for a high school that may not be the best characteristic.

Be sure to ask lots of questions though, we love to answer questions!


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First of all, the fancy light you're thinking of is probably something like a High-End Systems DL.3 like the other guy said.

DL.3 Digital Light - Digital Lighting - Products - High End Systems

Now, it's all well and good to want to research things, but your high school just spent money on all this new gear: bugging them for MORE isn't going to help you out :) What you need to do is:

- download and memorize user manuals for all your gear.
- PRACTICE!

Once you know the stuff inside and out and can find the faders in your sleep, then you can start talking about the limits of what you have. Get as much time in on the gear you have now as you can, and you'll be amazed on what you can do.
 
It is easier to answer specific questions. My question to you is do you understand what DMX is and how it is used? What type of shows are you doing? What is the experience level of the techs using the gear? Basically we need more information on your system and what it is being used for.
 
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I definitely agree with knowing your own gear. I have gone out on shows more than once to program and supplement rigs and have been asked by people at the venue what is making this particular effect and I tell them it is their fixture. The looks I get from them is priceless. I always hear we have had those lights for years and never knew they could do that. I have always had an attitude of if it lights up let's use it. I believe every designer should have this mind set. I have used rigs with dozens of DJ lights and make a cooler looking show than what I have designed based on riders. The DL3s are cool lights but not for area lighting. They have their own little niche for doing specialized projections especially when using the collage generator. They also require a powerful console such as a grand-MA or a hog3. I wouldn't run them on anything else due to the processing power involved. Also dealing with the content in them is extremely time consuming. Now a normal theatrical production i would choose different fixtures based on what I want them to do. Like vehicles lights are all designed for a different purpose. You wouldn't use a Camaro to pull a 30' trailer and you wouldn't want a Semi just to cruise around town.
 
On the other side of the coin, would you use 35 DL3s and a rig of 200 Mac 2K movers for Hamlet? Not usually.

That would be an insane version of hamlet. Im in, if anyone wants to do it.

However, to the OP: Source 4s are great, kind of a "Standard" theatrical fixture. Good for a lot of things, drop a gobo in there and you make texture, drop some color and some frost you have a nice wash, harden the edge and you have a nice little special... If your doing concerts and such, good for throwing a special on each of the band members and leaving at 50 or so unless they start shredding out a sweet solo, in which case bring it up a bit. Also good for front, back, side and top washes of color or texture. Fresnels are also great, but mainly as a wash fixture. IMO, toss at least 2 over any "lighting area", one warm and the other cool. Add more if you want a sweet green wash, or any other color really. Also really good for specials, for that leading lady kneeling by her bed after she kills her grandpa, a Fresnel right on top can just really make the moment. Nice soft edges, with a bit of frost they can be even softer, making a really nice pool of light. Drop in a barndoor for more control. If you dont have a lot of barn doors, get those before you get some VariLites or Macs. The ParNel: Nice for backlight, I personally like them. Makes focusing a backlight or toplight wash a breeze, just twist the thingy and make the pool the size you need! Great for dumping some serious color on the stage. Pop those on your farthest US LX pipe and make everyone shine colors! Your Revolutions can be used for tons of things. Not by far the most popular ML, but a ML none the less, and it works. Use for specials that can be re-focused (instead of only being able to hit the above lady at her bed, you can also hit her while shes killing the grandpa!) Also nice for some "flash and trash" (hereafter referred to F&T), or making lots of cool light effects for the school talent show, where most of the talent is convincing people to pay good money to come see it. Nothing makes a building chorus better than a huge audience ballyhoo right at the top.

Things I would look into: Learn about the McCandles method. A good way to light the stage for theater (well, to start). I like using something like R302 for my warm, and something like R62 for my cool. This is the bit where I deviate from the "method" and add some more fun stuff: I then add a N/C light dead on, and sometimes add a "deeper" blue (theres a great color by Lee for this, cant remember the number off the top of my head...) if I have a lot of night scenes, right next to my straight on light. I personally focus hard and drop frost, its easier than trying to match with running lens tubes on the S4. Next, I add at least a warm and a cool top wash, sometimes more than 2 colors if Im feeling fancy (or the lead actress needs to look bloody when doing murder), and some backlight in as many colors as I can make happen. I like using backlight to color because it changes the mood without making anyone too hard to see, and also makes a really cool effect in our actress's crazy hair. Side light is also good, I like throwing some gobos in S4s, and shooting them across the stage to make pretty texture. Ill then drop some colors or add scrollers to make pretty colors. There are various theories about where to put MLs for plays. I have never actually used a VL or Mac or Rev in one, but I imagine I would do the same as when I use I-Cues (a horrible little mirror that can be moved around the stage). I like to have 2-3 DS in my FoH catwalk, for moving specials, and then multiples of 2 over the stage, to add moving side highlights to the special. For R&R, Dump all your ParNels and Fresnels on your Upstage most electric, and color in Red, Blue, Amber and Green. I like adding a bunch of N/C as well, but you can do that with S4s if you have to. From the front, a blue, amber and red wash will usually serve you well, along with the a fore mentioned specials on the band members. Flash backlight, and make your Revs do things like flash and ballyhoo and throw gobos around, change color, etc in the time before you load out the band. Last of all, Have fun with it, because its making art! The more you learn your gear, the more art you can make! So learn your gear, try stuff out, screw the pooch (make mistakes), and learn the art, because this is how you make it. If you do it well, others from your school will do the same, and your lighting system (which sounds pretty darn good, FWIW) will be used to its maximum potential for years to come.

Oh and on the topic of wanting VLs and DL3s: For many years they lit plays with fire. Then they got lights. For years they lit concerts with huge piles of PARs, no movers at all. Many plays STILL dont use movers, and many that do use them more as "I can focus this many places and ____(insert name of house) in _____ (insert name of city) cant screw that up!!!!" instead of doing tons of cool stuff with them. You could make tons of art without your Revs, so dont worry about getting the newer VLs or DL3s which you REALLY dont need yet. Leave that to BonJovi or someone who has tons more money and the taste to put robots with video screens on stage. Make better art, not cooler effects.
 
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Just a couple of quick comments - Your "fernell" is a fresnel, pronounced with a silent S. Parnell should be parnel.

I would venture that this should be an acceptable spelling for those CB members residing south of the Mason-Dixon line, in keeping with the local pronunciation.
 
But in this case it is a type of lighting instrument, not a proper noun. Now ETC Fresnel is a specific kind of fresnel, so maybe it is capitalized?

I also have always seen it as PARnel (from the capitalizing of PAR in PARcan).

By the way, I would love to do that Hamlet. I once did Romeo and Juliet with about a half mile of neon.

Mike
 
But in this case it is a type of lighting instrument, not a proper noun. Now ETC Fresnel is a specific kind of fresnel, so maybe it is capitalized?

I also have always seen it as PARnel (from the capitalizing of PAR in PARcan).

By the way, I would love to do that Hamlet. I once did Romeo and Juliet with about a half mile of neon.

Mike


Getting a little off-topic here, but we're putting up Twelfth Night later this year - modernized and gender reversed. Ought to be something.
 
Shiben, what you describe regarding the McCandless method is a more advanced version than I'm used to. I always thought of McCandless as three-point lighting -- warm and cool front lights (usually ellipsoidals) ~45 degrees off center from the area (one per side); and a neutral toplight (sometimes an open-white fresnel).

I find this to be a good "quick-n-dirty" solution for simple productions, generally adding broader washes or whatever specials after I achieve acceptable area lighting.
 
Shiben, what you describe regarding the McCandless method is a more advanced version than I'm used to. I always thought of McCandless as three-point lighting -- warm and cool front lights (usually ellipsoidals) ~45 degrees off center from the area (one per side); and a neutral toplight (sometimes an open-white fresnel).

I find this to be a good "quick-n-dirty" solution for simple productions, generally adding broader washes or whatever specials after I achieve acceptable area lighting.

Oh yeah, thats what we might call the Shiben method. Its basically McCandles hit with some Jewel lighting, When you hang the entire thing and leave color out, you can walk on, focus some specials, drop some color and go to town. I have found McCandless without some jazz to it, although quick and dirty, just feels pretty boring and stale, and I figure if your gonna hang a rep plot, hang in some stuff that makes fun light too, because otherwise it gets forgotten...
 
Well, the revolutions may not be the "best" moving head, (again, depending on what you are doing with it), the fresnels are great for color washes and fill light, and the source 4s are the most popular ellipsoidal ever. With more then 2 million sold (at least whenever the wiki was updated, thanks Derek) it must have something right!

If you post either pictures of things you don't know how to use, we can help a little more. Or at least, specific things you would like to learn.

I would suggest you look at the famous Gafftaper Method( use the search function to find it), instead of getting insanely expensive movers.

And, why do you want to get wireless clearcoms? They are nice, but as you said, stupidly expensive and not the most durable thing, and for a high school that may not be the best characteristic.

Be sure to ask lots of questions though, we love to answer questions!


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I will get some pictures and post them. The wireless clear coms are mainly for the mobility issue. Our people backstage are having to constantly be off to go handle things, a wireless clear com would be great, and if the Sm could have one she could be talking anywhere in the theatre, and OUr spot operators basically act as ushers and bouncers when not spotting. We're pretty good with all of our equipment. We have a permanent tech crew (pay roll, interviews, things like that) and are trained as we come in to handle with care and use gaff tape if it doesn't work. It's like duct tape. But in a theater.
 
So when you guys say frost are you talking about diffusers? I think it's the same. We have lenses and gels to do that and I love them and next year when I have control of the lighting I will use them.

We just finished a run of Hairspray, and it was the first time we used the revolutions for an event, let alone a show. Before that they had just been a fun toy.

Are Fresnels and Parnels only for overhead lighting, or can they be used as fronts. I know we have this one light that acts like a spot no matter how far you shoot it or how steep the angle, is that the parnel?

As for DMX, I know it's what we use to control the lights and that it uses cords that look like mic cords except when you get to the batten, then it's a totally different cord to hook up to the light. How it actually works, I'm still a little fuzzy on.

Our main reason for wanting a ton of movers (Why I went crazy when I say vl's and the DL3) was to have a show where we could change the entire lighting scheme every scene, no need to be constantly keeping track of which front(all of our fronts are source fours except for the 2 revolutions) points where and which isn't used and the like, just point, shoot, record.

Also, next year we're doing Chicago (One of my favorite musicals) and I want it to be absolutely perfect, so I'm trying to learn how to make our system do amazing things. I kind of had this vision of these red movers running across the stage to focus on the dancers in cell block tango then zoom out to create a red wash on the stage w/ some overhead amber to soften it on them. One of the reasons I really wanted more movers.

Does anyone know how to program those black boxes, by the way, it's a bit of a pet project for all the lighting people at my school. ALL of us. We have a program on our desktop called lumaedit that seems to be for that, but it doesn't contain any kind of DMX programming aspect, just customizing menus and internal settings. Also, I've wanted to replace them with this (DMX Touch Screen > Entertainment Lighting Controls > Commercial Lighting > All Products from Leviton Electrical and Electronic Products) and was wondering if it was actually the same type of thing.

And does anyone know what lumanet/colornet/hydranet are? We keep seeing these things and we're trying to figure these out, but to no avail. Our board and our computer both say things about hydranet in connection windows.

Tomorrow I'll get pictures of the theatre and some of the equipment.

Also, any more light design knowledge on here would be awesome, or if someone could direct me to another part of the forum where that kind of stuff is it would be great.

Thanks for all the responses!

PS I read the gafftaper method. Sound functional.
 
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