The above Ad will no longer appear after you Sign Up for Free!

Lighting Instrument Heat-Resistant Cable?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by pianoman, May 16, 2008.

  1. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm looking for some place I can buy the special fiberglass-sheathed lighting instrument cable. I need about 10' so I can rewire a couple old fixtures that used to have asbestos wiring in them. I've checked around a few places I know and I haven't found it so far, any tips?

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  2. Dustincoc

    Dustincoc Active Member

    Messages:
    463
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Madrid, New York
    On a lot of fixtures, the individual wires are permenantly attached to the socket so you will have to replace the sockets. The fiberglass sheath is Altman part numbers 55-SLVF04BK or 55-SLVF05BK. It cost $1.50/ft from directly from Altman.

    Any supply house should also carry it, although you probably have to call.
     
  3. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the lead on the sheath Dustin!

    Unfortunately, I doubt I can replace the socket in these. I'm relatively certain that someone has the individual wires I need though, does anyone know what type of wire is used in that situation? I seem to recall it's some sort of rubberized cable, instead of the typical plastic-covered wire, kind of like the wire that is inside of SJ cable. Any ideas on that one?

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  4. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    1,280
    Location:
    North Wales PA
    No, not SJ or any rubber / neoprene covered wire. About the only "Rubberized" wire would be silicon. You may want to go to a wire manufacturer's website and look at the selection they make for the aviation industry. The numbers slip my mind, but there are several that a silicon rubber with a fiberglass sheath. The more common wire (also used in aviation) is Teflon. This wire tends to be stiffer, but holds up much better. In either case, these are then slipped into an overall fiberglass sleeve. If someone does not beat me to it, let me look around for some part numbers.
     
  5. Van

    Van CBMod CB Mods Premium Member

    Messages:
    5,906
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Occupation:
    Project Manager, Stagecraft Industries, Inc.
    Location:
    Portland, Or.
    The manufacturers name for that fibergalss sheath is SilverFlex. It's availible in a ton of sizes, and colors, the most common being; white
    < natural fiberglass color, which is really "clear" but like Polar Bear Hair appears White when all those fibres are stacked together. > < Just though you might like to know since, "Knowing is Half the Battle">
    Black, and Silver. Be aware too that you my find several competeing materials on the market, I would stay away from any "plastic" sheathing materials, unless they are heat and wear rated and acceptable by the fixtures manufacturer as a valid replacement.
     
  6. gafftaper

    gafftaper Senior Team Senior Team Fight Leukemia

    Messages:
    12,675
    Likes Received:
    2,702
    Occupation:
    Theater Manager & T.D.
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington
    I would just call my local theater dealer as they would have it in their repair shop or be able to get it. Another option would be to take a good cap to your local electrical supply house (Not Home Depot, the place professional electricians shop in your town) and say I want some of this wire right here.

    If neither of those work for you, you could always drop CB member "BillESC" a P.M. and I bet he can fix you up.
     
    BillESC likes this.
  7. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    I actually talked to the TD at the theatre I work for, and he gave me some catalogs. I found that Stage Technology sells the sheathing and the individual wires by the foot. I think the wires are like $.36/ft., and the sheathing is $.42/ft.

    Thanks,
    Dan
     
  8. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,044
    Likes Received:
    794
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Not for nothing, but why are you in need of the hi-temp fixture wire, without a socket attached ?. Granted I CAN think of some applications, but as others have stated, the sockets come with the wire(s) permanently installed.

    I have trouble recommending the wire needed if I think there is going to be some sort of splicing involved inside the fixture, simply to avoid having to swap out the socket. Splicing in the fixture is not recommended practice, especially with high wattage stage lighting equipment.

    Note that my comments are oriented towards the less experienced members of the forum.

    [Edit] Unless of course, it's a medium pre-focus socket who's contacts are screw terminals. In that case, contact Production Advantage, they have everything you need. www.proadv.com

    Steve B.
     
  9. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    What I am doing is rewiring and refurbishing some old floodlight-type fixtures I got for free from the theatre. (Actually for those who are interested, they are Kliegl Olivettes I believe.) They have an E39 mogul base socket in them, which was wired to stagepin plugs, but the wiring was asbestos wiring, and I need edison plugs anyway. I already need to disassemble and repaint them (I'm using high-temp grill paint), and I obviously needed new wiring. I understand that most fixtures have lamp assemblies that are usually more complex, but this is definitely not one of those fixtures. It's no more complicated than wiring a regular household light bulb. The only thing I'm adding is a ground wire, which I will connect to the chassis. I also know that having this kind of bulk wire available is handy when you're refurbishing old fixtures in general. For example, at the aforementioned theatre all the old lights had/have asbestos wiring, which has been gradually replaced with the new sheathing material and heat resistant wire.

    I do agree though, this is not something that should be done by everyone...

    Actually, refurbishing these lights has been an interesting research project. It turns out they were designed to be used on a floor stand, for which I seem to have the base, but I lack a strange piece of hardware, which is like a big solid iron cone bent 90 degrees with a threaded hole, which would mate with the threaded rod on the matching cone thing on the lights. To make up for this, I came up with a mounting yoke of sorts for both instruments which uses 1" square steel bolted to a pipe cap which has a 2' pipe on it to fit over a tripod light stand. To fix the lights to the stand so that they are overhung, I put eye bolts in the square steel, which go between the large side of the cone flange and a nut (with rubber washers in between). I will post more pictures of this later...it's probably not the most perfect solution, but it was the simplest I could come up with; other alternatives included drilling new holes in the fixture and/or making up light yokes of some kind, which would have to attach at the bottom of the fixture and come up all the way around to the top...

    Anyway, that's my story.

    -Dan
     
  10. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Likes Received:
    2,870
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Good for you, pianoman. Yes, please post pictures when you're done. Sounds as if you're doing everything right. If you want to be authentic, most of the fixtures I've seen from that era were not painted (possibly as high-temp paint may not have existed). If you want/need to use the paint as a rust-preventative, I'd suggest silver engine paint for the exterior and white for the interior. If there is a manufacturer's label, be sure to mask that if possible. If you're sure they're Kliegl Bros., might be worth the time and effort to make a stencil in a contrasting color (see my avatar).
     
  11. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    I will have to look more closely at them...it looks like they were originally painted black with silver on the inside, but there are many layers of paint on the inside; only one on the outside though. I bought white for the inside because I got it at the Home Depot store in town that's closing, but I will see if there is silver high temp paint that I can get for a reasonable price. No name plate on them, but I have seen them in the old Kliegl catalogs, and I can't imagine anyone else made a light exactly like that. Also, they're coming from a place that has several Kliegl 1355, fresnels, and two scoops. I have 4 of the 1355's. I wish they would let go of the fresnels but they like them as much as I do!

    One of the Olivettes looks older than the other; one has two holes in the bottom for the wiring (two individual asbestos covered leads) and one has one hole in the bottom. One is also really misshapen, it looks like it's been bent and dropped. I'm not sure if I can really remedy that too well but I will try. They have two different looking lamp bases too which makes me think they're different generations. The theatre they are coming from was built in the late 1960s, but who knows where they might have been before that. It is possible that they were new to that theatre, but then again I don't know if it's really that likely because as far as I know that theatre has always had twistlock connections all over, and the Olivettes had stagepins when I got them. One of them actually had an old wooden-bodied stage pin, both were two prong of course.

    They actually also have a Kliegpac-9 in the booth from the old lighting system installation that needs a home. I thought about picking it up, but getting power to it in any situation I'm in (household power only usually) would be probably not safe or advisable.

    Do you happen to have a larger version of your avatar that I could use? I actually have seen that stencil on some of the electrical strips in the theatre, rewired when the new system was installed, but they're at least 20' in the air on a wall, so trying to copy that stencil would be difficult to say the least.

    -Dan
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2008
  12. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Likes Received:
    2,870
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Sounds/looks as though at least one of your lights may be a 1N, had that funky arm-mount you're describing. The link is a page from this 1965 catalog.
    [​IMG]
    So that logo may be more appropriate. 1965 is probably around the end of the Olivette for Kliegl. I think my scoop is later than that. ... Then again, the script is very similar to that used in this 1935 catalog. I can't find the exact logo on my scoop in any of the catalogs at Kliegl Bros. Universal Electric Stage Lighting Company.

    Fascinating research project though. Kliegl certainly used many different typefaces through the years--I guess it was their way of trying to stay modern.

    If you still want to use "my" Kliegl Bros. logo, I'd be happy to send you a digital picture, just email me directly, or PM to me your email address.

    No doubt [user]gafftapegreenia[/user] will be drooling all over this thread soon (in a good way).:)
     
  13. SteveB

    SteveB Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,044
    Likes Received:
    794
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Sounds like a cool rainy day project.

    Just don't turn them into one of those butt ugly table lamps the others round these parts are so fond of !.

    SB
     
  14. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Likes Received:
    2,870
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    [user]pianoman[/user], perhaps one of your Olivettes is an Altman. Could make a wonderful table lamp !
     
  15. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,392
    Likes Received:
    533
    Occupation:
    Prop-tart
    Location:
    Chicago
    Hey people like my lamp!
     
  16. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    The Altman alternative is quite possible. Does anyone have any close pictures of a Kliegl Olivette for comparison? The catalog image isn't really very specific...

    -Dan
     
  17. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just read the comment about making it a table lamp...interesting idea but I'm not sure if I really need a 500W table lamp. :) Although I did find adapter bases to go from E39 to standard bulb base size (forget the name), maybe I could use some of those to get to a more reasonable lamp size...

    Anyway, I got the wiring in that I needed, and I'm hoping to wire them up this week. Still haven't painted them, but that will come later this summer. I do have a question though: first, where should I attach the ground wire? I can either attach it directly to the frame, or I can attach it to one of the mounting screws for the lamp base. The other question is should I pay careful attention to the polarity of the lamp base? I'm guessing I should, in which case from what I recall the bottom part of the base is +, and the screw part is - ; am I right?

    -Dan
     
  18. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

    Messages:
    4,468
    Likes Received:
    2,870
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV, USA
    Dan, if you like antique theatrical fixtures in your living room (and I'm told some people don't, though I cannot understand why?:)), use the E39 to E27 lampbase adapter and put a CFL OR (better) one of these in it. Face it, it's days of lighting a stage are past.

    Connect the ground wire to any electrically conductive surface of the fixture. An existing socket mounting screw sounds perfect.

    There is no + or - in AC current. The hot, black, wire goes to the center of the lamp socket and the neutral, white, to the side.

    Can't wait to see the pictures.
     
  19. gafftapegreenia

    gafftapegreenia CBMod CB Mods

    Messages:
    4,392
    Likes Received:
    533
    Occupation:
    Prop-tart
    Location:
    Chicago
    Derek you started the whole leko-lamp craze.
     
  20. pianoman

    pianoman Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Speaking of the Leko-lamp, I'm curious how that works...do you have pictures? I have some Kliegl 1355s that I like but they're obviously a bit difficult to use in a house normally, but they might make decent reading lamps if it werent for the fact that they put out 500W and are quite warm. Did you modify the lamp base or something to make it a more tame reading lamp or did you just use a dimmer of some sort?

    -Dan
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice