Lighting "nodes" every where, but what universe are they?

[NickVon]

So our space, which i'm new to and still getting used to. Has DMX/network nodes all over the room. It's Great. I'm mostly utilizing the exisiting plot/channel setup for our fall play as I haven't had time to delve into configuring it exactly how I want. We have two nodes and 8 analogue circuits on our back wall. I've got some LED cyc units, but have no idea what universe each node might be. I know we got at least 14? (our Rack in the E-room is labeled but do the number on the network ports directly correspond to a Universe? we have existing ColorSource Pars on our 4 electrics that are in like universer 11-14 respectively?

Judging from some spoty paperwork I found lying around I though they might be universe 33 and 34. But when I patch the ColorSource Cyc Unit(addr 160) to 33/160 or 34/160 I get nadda?

How do I identify what universe the various nodes are around the theater so I can label them?

 

[theatricalmatt]

Exit Eos into the shell. Click on the "Settings" button on-screen, then click on the "Maintenance" button to the right, then find the "Net3 Concert" button to the left. You may only have the older "Gateway Configuration Editor" on your machine, at which point you should download Concert from etcconnect.com and install it on your board.

Concert handles all the networked devices. You should be able to identify individual nodes (by making lights flash) or by viewing their MAC address. From there, you can change the IP address for each node (to make certain it's not colliding with another node) and then set its DMX output.

(Also -- I'm guessing you have one-port nodes with no LCD screen on them; the two-port nodes are better if simply for the fact that the onscreen menu helps ID them quicker.)

The other, harder way to do it (and you don't have to exit Eos to do) is to bring up each universe in turn -- ie, "Address 1/1 thru 1/512 at 50" -- and work your way through universes 1 through 35 (or 99, to be a little more complete). When the lights glow, they're within the universe you just brought up. You can speed it up slightly by running it as a binary search (ie, universes 1 - 100; if positive, then 1 - 50; if positive, 1 - 25; then 1 - 12, etc. til you get the result you want.)

Oh, last thing -- label the nodes with a PTouch label maker; include node number, IP address, and DMX output. I keep mine static (rather than DHCP) so they're a little easier to move around when I need to.

 

[NickVon]

THanks @theatricalmatt I Do hope to label them all at somepoint and also document them on my Rep plog paperwork. I'll try that afterschool today

 

[SteveB]

Good reply from Matt and what was my recomendation as well. When you get launched into Concert (great software as BTW) hit the Network tab and itll look for all the devices on the network and should show you all your nodes. I give each node a label of some sort "SR Cat DS" as example and I put a tape with that label on the node so I know where everything is located and what its doing. I also put a label on the node as to what universe a port is assigned. If you click on a node, then click on a port, it'll tell you what universe its set to. This is where you can change the config as needed. You can also look at and config Sensor 3 racks here in Concert as well and is how I set my ThruPower modules. Dont forget to save any changes.

 

[theatricalmatt]

There's also an extraordinarily useful function in Concert called (iirc) "Find Undiscoverable Devices." This *really* helps if the IP address of the node is set to something wildly different than expected!

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Protip: Nothing* on your production LAN(s) should *EVER* be DHCP; the flexibility it gives you is always outweighed by the extra complexity and extra point of failure.

Source: I've been a networking pro for 30 years, and a production guy for 20. (And apparently a writer for only about 15 minutes... "* that is a permanent device, especially something which might be a remote control target")

 

[almorton]

We have addresses reserved in the DHCP server, so they appear to be static. This means you can add a new item to the network and have it get an address correctly dynamically assigned from the free range if you need to, but all the permanent items always get the same address from the reserved range.

 

[danTt]

Exit Eos into the shell. Click on the "Settings" button on-screen, then click on the "Maintenance" button to the right, then find the "Net3 Concert" button to the left. You may only have the older "Gateway Configuration Editor" on your machine, at which point you should download Concert from etcconnect.com and install it on your board.

Concert handles all the networked devices. You should be able to identify individual nodes (by making lights flash) or by viewing their MAC address. From there, you can change the IP address for each node (to make certain it's not colliding with another node) and then set its DMX output.

(Also -- I'm guessing you have one-port nodes with no LCD screen on them; the two-port nodes are better if simply for the fact that the onscreen menu helps ID them quicker.)

The other, harder way to do it (and you don't have to exit Eos to do) is to bring up each universe in turn -- ie, "Address 1/1 thru 1/512 at 50" -- and work your way through universes 1 through 35 (or 99, to be a little more complete). When the lights glow, they're within the universe you just brought up. You can speed it up slightly by running it as a binary search (ie, universes 1 - 100; if positive, then 1 - 50; if positive, 1 - 25; then 1 - 12, etc. til you get the result you want.)

Oh, last thing -- label the nodes with a PTouch label maker; include node number, IP address, and DMX output. I keep mine static (rather than DHCP) so they're a little easier to move around when I need to.

This is great advice, though it relies on the nodes being ETC Net3 nodes. If they are Etcnet2 nodes, or pathport nodes, or any other type of ethernet->dmx gateway in existance, you'll have no luck with concert. If concert doesn't work, it would be handy to see a picture.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

We have addresses reserved in the DHCP server, so they appear to be static. This means you can add a new item to the network and have it get an address correctly dynamically assigned from the free range if you need to, but all the permanent items always get the same address from the reserved range.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, DHCP reservations.

What happens when a) your DHCP server dies and you don't notice or b) someone *drops an extra DHCP server on your LAN and you don't realize it*?

Had both happen, and not even on production nets.

The only DHCP problem reservations *do* protect you from is "ran out of available leases". (Had that happen twice this year. Hate VoIP.)

 

[almorton]

Or someone drops another item on the network with an already in use static address and you don't notice?

There're caveats all round. Pros and cons to each scenario. I like being able to connect say a tablet or phone temporarily as a lighting remote (or mixing remote or qlab remote) without having to go through the paperwork to find a free address. YMMV

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Or someone drops another item on the network with an already in use static address and you don't notice?

There're caveats all round. Pros and cons to each scenario. I like being able to connect say a tablet or phone temporarily as a lighting remote (or mixing remote or qlab remote) without having to go through the paperwork to find a free address. YMMV

Well, yeah, but usually, especially with current day gear, that failure *breaks right now when you plug something in*.

And I wasn't even suggesting - forgive me if I was insufficiently clear - that *you not run a DHCP server*, or that there were not devices for which it was a suitable solution.

Merely that *fixed devices, the targets of remote control* certainly do not live in that category.

Time for more caffeine, clearly. :-}

 

[almorton]

Aye, ageeed.

 

[Jay Ashworth]

Aye, ageeed.

About the networking? Or the caffeine?

 

[almorton]

Both.

 

[MRW Lights]

Protip: Nothing* on your production LAN(s) should *EVER* be DHCP; the flexibility it gives you is always outweighed by the extra complexity and extra point of failure.

Source: I've been a networking pro for 30 years, and a production guy for 20. (And apparently a writer for only about 15 minutes... "* that is a permanent device, especially something which might be a remote control target")

I mean there's a lot of theory for how to best set up a network... and there are certainly best practices....

There's also an important piece of language being used loosely here... and that is the term "Node" a node is any device capable of communicating on the network...

At any given time our lighting network has up to about 320 statically addressed Nodes... along the lines of fixtures, gateways, relays, controllers, processors, switches so many things...

We also have a DHCP server that can assign appropriate addresses based on MAC information to "temporary" nodes on the network such as remotes, portable controllers, guest equipment, rentals... those are filtered through VLAN's

I would venture to say that our system is not typical for most spaces, but it works very well for us and we have dedicated team of full time engineers with networking experience and a server station running concert 24/7 along with a DHCP address service... enterprise level networking is possible in entertainment lighting, but I wouldn't say it's necessary... if run appropriately it can be utilized with great success...

 

[TimMc]

I would venture to say that our system is not typical for most spaces, but it works very well for us and we have dedicated team of full time engineers with networking experience and a server station running concert 24/7 along with a DHCP address service... enterprise level networking is possible in entertainment lighting, but I wouldn't say it's necessary... if run appropriately it can be utilized with great success...

The secret of your success is having an IT staff that understands your use cases and does not treat your gear/needs as a threat to the rest of the network. I can assure that most of us have 180° experiences that leave us surreptitiously running our own CAT5 cables and trying to hide WAPs in our little network segment (always fails, the Crystal Ball of IT® sees all), whereupon we are soundly chastised and threatened with unemployment for violating IT policy.

Or you win the lotto and get IT folks that understand and like theatre...

 

[Jay Ashworth]

The secret of your success is having an IT staff that understands your use cases and does not treat your gear/needs as a threat to the rest of the network. I can assure that most of us have 180° experiences that leave us surreptitiously running our own CAT5 cables and trying to hide WAPs in our little network segment (always fails, the Crystal Ball of IT® sees all), whereupon we are soundly chastised and threatened with unemployment for violating IT policy.

Or you win the lotto and get IT folks that understand and like theatre...

B-I-N-G-O, and bingo was his name-o.

We didn't tell Campus/College IT that the single port and static IP they gave us had a *router* on it until we had no choice -- I think we got away with it for at least 3 years, maybe as much as 5.

Had I not missed that someone patched an A&H Dante port into our network switch, and it was the root cause of our network melting down every day all summer, they might not know *yet*. Given the number of clients who've paid me for this stuff over 30 years, I figured it was a relatively safe bet. In my defense, once I got the essential fact, it took me about 45 seconds to figure out where the cause was. :-}

 

[MRW Lights]

The secret of your success is having an IT staff that understands your use cases and does not treat your gear/needs as a threat to the rest of the network. I can assure that most of us have 180° experiences that leave us surreptitiously running our own CAT5 cables and trying to hide WAPs in our little network segment (always fails, the Crystal Ball of IT® sees all), whereupon we are soundly chastised and threatened with unemployment for violating IT policy.

Or you win the lotto and get IT folks that understand and like theatre...

Oh you're very much not wrong... my ETC Net is mine and mine alone. IT doesn't get to come near it with a 325' ethernet cable.... so there's that. Though we're a VERY large entertainment network and IT knows we're here, but kind of lets us play in our own sandbox so that we don't bother them unless we have to. We're very thankful to get along well with them, but it's also because we can be 98% self sufficient. Essentially at times we operate as a small division of our enterprise IT department.

 

[SteveB]

Protip: Nothing* on your production LAN(s) should *EVER* be DHCP; the flexibility it gives you is always outweighed by the extra complexity and extra point of failure.

I've been running DHCP from the Ion for years, some systems with 4 racks, 15-20 nodes, remotes, etc.... with no issues.

 

[SteveB]

The secret of your success is having an IT staff that understands your use cases and does not treat your gear/needs as a threat to the rest of the network.

My IT department has no idea there are multiple lighting and audio ethernet based systems. all with WiFi, in use in our building. I'm never involving them either.