Lighting Tips for the Musical - Cabaret

[michaelpraytor]

Hello - first post here!

First off, I think a little background on myself is necessary so that you all might understand my skill level and all:

I'm from a small town in the southern US, and I've been acting in community theatre and some professional productions since 2011. Outside of acting, I play in a few bands and occasionally run sound and lights for concerts, variety shows, etc. And more rarely, I've done musical direction.
With this background, I can understand each person's roles and frustrations involved with a project. Still, I'm a bit of a jack of all trades, master of none - and I'm still learning a lot. For most of my lighting work, for instance, I've done things on the fly and not plotted everything out beforehand in a lighting design. About the only jobs I've not had in a production are stage manager, costume designer, director, and lighting designer.

I recently joined the board of directors for a small community theatre just outside my hometown. They invited me to join because of my "well-rounded" experience in many fields of the theatre - and because I am the only person they could find with adequate technical knowledge to do tech at their theatre.
So far, I've assisted them in purchasing a digital mixing console and some new wireless microphones. At the last board meeting, they floated the idea of putting on Cabaret and having me direct (in some capacity).

Right now, I'm exploring the possibility of successfully mounting the show - so I'm doing tons of research and trying to get everything in order so I can be prepared to either direct, musical direct, run lights, or run sound - or do a combination of a few or all of those things.

So here we go with my specific questions:

1. The lighting board at the theatre is VERY large and old. I wish I knew the brand and model number right offhand... I know that chases can be programmed on the board, but I'm not sure if programming "scenes" would be possible. What are some good, professional boards out there that would allow me to program lighting scenes that I could access at the push of a button?

2. Could I run lights using my computer? I'm unsure at how many fixtures are in the theatre at the moment, or how I would fade lights up and down using the computer... Maybe some sort of midi light console? The computer idea just popped into my head because I feel like I could do the lighting design and set scenes easier.

3. I think it would be cool to have some light-up marquee letters on stage, and some bulbs framing part of the stage and bandstand and at times "moving" in a "marching ants" sort of way. I'm sorry if that doesn't make much sense - I don't really know of any proper name for this type of lighting gimmick. If the frame of lights was built from scratch out of ordinary lighting fixtures, how could I rig it to program via DMX? Similarly, if we obtained some of those pre-made marquee letters with the lights that you can find at places like Hobby Lobby - is there anyway to trigger those coming on and off via DMX?

Sorry for the long post and the dumb questions - but I have VERY little knowledge of how stage lighting really works. I only know the basics from the little work I've done before with lights, and from DJ gigs. Any help at all would be appreciated!

 

[seanandkate]

No such thing as a dumb question Mike. We'll need some more information before we can really help you out, but I'll get the ball rolling:

1. The lighting board at the theatre is VERY large and old. I wish I knew the brand and model number right offhand... I know that chases can be programmed on the board, but I'm not sure if programming "scenes" would be possible. What are some good, professional boards out there that would allow me to program lighting scenes that I could access at the push of a button?

This will be dictated by things like how many dimmers you have and what your budget is. Most boards nowadays will allow you to recall "looks / cues / presets" with a button or fader. For a musical, this will make your board op's life logarithmically easier.

2. Could I run lights using my computer? I'm unsure at how many fixtures are in the theatre at the moment, or how I would fade lights up and down using the computer... Maybe some sort of midi light console? The computer idea just popped into my head because I feel like I could do the lighting design and set scenes easier.

You can totally run lights through your computer. Check out this recent thread. The search field in the top right of the Controlbooth page is your friend, and it will allow you to dig around and do some preliminary research. I run ETC Nomad on my computer to help me program my board at the theatre, and it is helpful.

3. I think it would be cool to have some light-up marquee letters on stage, and some bulbs framing part of the stage and bandstand and at times "moving" in a "marching ants" sort of way. I'm sorry if that doesn't make much sense - I don't really know of any proper name for this type of lighting gimmick. If the frame of lights was built from scratch out of ordinary lighting fixtures, how could I rig it to program via DMX? Similarly, if we obtained some of those pre-made marquee letters with the lights that you can find at places like Hobby Lobby - is there anyway to trigger those coming on and off via DMX?

The cheap and dirty solution (especially as we enter the Christmas season and string lights are plentiful) is to make your own. One uncomplicated solution for the "marching ants" chase, is to have three different strings of lights in three different circuits and program them in a chase. Heck with the proliferation of Christmas lights that already chase right out of the package, maybe you could just use that.

I'm sure sure others will be along to help you shortly. Welcome to the 'Booth.

 

[JohnD]

Welcome, if you haven't done so yet, do a search for Cabaret in the box above, many elements of this show have been discussed before. Also, take some time to go thru the Wiki, especially the collaborative articles.
Please tell us more about what your venue is like, pictures would be great. Pictures of your dimmer rack, lighting positions and control board will be very helpful.
In order to get up to speed on technical theater, I strongly suggest getting one of the standard college level textbooks. The latest editions are quite spendy BUT the older editions are a bargain. One example is Scene Design and Stage Lighting by Oren Parker and others, the latest edition is $175 or so, but you can pick up an older edition for about $5. Guess what, the basic principle hasn't changed much at all and the older text will be more in line with your facility. Also the latest edition is already out of date by the time it is published when it comes to new tech.

 

[JD]

First and most important: Is the current system DMX, Analog, or "other"? If the answer is DMX, then there is a world of opportunities available to you for control. If it is not DMX, then there is the question of translating DMX to whatever protocol is being used. Depending on the number of channels, and how reliable the manufacturer of the converter is, this can get expensive. If this is the case, you must first assess if the current dimmer system is worth it. If that is the case, then the next step would be to go to http://www.dfd.com/ (kind of the standard of the industry for protocol conversions.)
Once you are on the DMX protocol, you can obtain software to run the show on your computer, or buy a dedicated board from $150 to $50,000 depending on your budget and needs!

 

[RickR]

So much going on! Welcome to the fun.

I would bet that most light boards that can do a chase can also record scenes for a basic cue list. Look for the big GO button.

New gear can do wonders for a small stage, but it might be smarter to wait a bit. Generally you get what you pay for and you might end up spending several thousand. I would want to really know it was well spent and not a band-aid on a major system.

 

[michaelpraytor]

This will be dictated by things like how many dimmers you have and what your budget is. Most boards nowadays will allow you to recall "looks / cues / presets" with a button or fader. For a musical, this will make your board op's life logarithmically easier.

I haven't gotten a chance to go into the theatre and get on the catwalk since making this post (I haven't even been up in the catwalk at all) - so I'm still unsure at the number of dimmers. As soon as I get a chance to get back in, I'll take a ton of photos of everything I see and post them here, because I'll definitely need some help. Believe it or not, of the MANY theatre students I know (including the ones with degrees), none of them know a whole lot about lighting because they either focused entirely on acting, participated in other tech classes, or had very general lighting class. So far, you all have helped me out immensely.

I know the board has a few faders and a handful of banked presets you can choose from... But not much more than that as far as I'm familiar. The guy that was in charge of tech at the theatre before me showed me how all that worked - but it was a really complicated process compared to the light boards that I've seen in large theatres and at colleges (all of those have had screens displaying cues - this one, nor the one at a local high school I work with do). I want board operation to be as simple as possible, but with a lot of options - because chances are I won't always be around to run it.

You can totally run lights through your computer. Check out this recent thread. The search field in the top right of the Controlbooth page is your friend, and it will allow you to dig around and do some preliminary research. I run ETC Nomad on my computer to help me program my board at the theatre, and it is helpful.

Thank you so much for this! I've been DJing for a short period of time, and I was looking for a good, flexible program to run DJ lights with - but also theatre lighting. ETC Nomad looks really cool, and a friend of mine that did tech on a dance tour a while back told me that was the program he used on some legs of the tour. I'm definitely going to check that out!

The cheap and dirty solution (especially as we enter the Christmas season and string lights are plentiful) is to make your own. One uncomplicated solution for the "marching ants" chase, is to have three different strings of lights in three different circuits and program them in a chase. Heck with the proliferation of Christmas lights that already chase right out of the package, maybe you could just use that.

I had thought of this - but I hesitated because of how small most Christmas lights are, and I didn't want the lights to be so...obviously Christmas. BUT I've seen a couple of videos of high school productions of Cabaret that are using Christmas lights for a similar purpose, and it doesn't look bad from a distance! Plus I remembered that you can buy Christmas lights with "globe bulbs" - so that might be a good solution for keeping them from looking Christmas-sy! Thanks for this!

Please tell us more about what your venue is like, pictures would be great. Pictures of your dimmer rack, lighting positions and control board will be very helpful.

Hi! It's a small 380 seat theatre with a mezzanine. Two spotlights and operated from the mezzanine, and the rest of the lights are in the control booth on ground level. There's one catwalk over the house with about 11-12 lights suspended from it (I'm also not sure what type of lights they are, but I'm guessing PAR cans). The catwalk is accessed through a crawlspace in the ceiling. No clue about the lights above the stage yet. I haven't been able to get back into the theatre and get detailed photos yet (most of the photos I've taken in the past revolve around sound equipment). But here are some photos that I dug up from my phone of the catwalk and the light board (blurry snapchat screenshots):

In order to get up to speed on technical theater, I strongly suggest getting one of the standard college level textbooks. The latest editions are quite spendy BUT the older editions are a bargain. One example is Scene Design and Stage Lighting by Oren Parker and others, the latest edition is $175 or so, but you can pick up an older edition for about $5. Guess what, the basic principle hasn't changed much at all and the older text will be more in line with your facility. Also the latest edition is already out of date by the time it is published when it comes to new tech.

I cannot thank you enough for recommending this book to me. I randomly put it on my Amazon wishlist ages ago, but your post inspired me to look it up - and I quickly found a PDF and skimmed the whole thing and found some great information and a lot of answers to my questions. I'm definitely going to pick up a copy and use it as my bible!
One thing I learned from the book is that PAR cans should be sort of used sparingly, because they create large washes of light. This is the exact opposite of how every theatre around me thinks... There are 4 theatres near me that exclusively use PARs.

So much going on! Welcome to the fun.

I would bet that most light boards that can do a chase can also record scenes for a basic cue list. Look for the big GO button.

I don't think this board has a GO button (or a similar button). If it did, I imagine it would be a headache because there isn't a way of displaying a list of cues... So what if a cue was missed? Or skipped? How would the board op know? I'm certain it can record a chase, though, because the previous guy programmed a "lightning" chase.

New gear can do wonders for a small stage, but it might be smarter to wait a bit. Generally you get what you pay for and you might end up spending several thousand. I would want to really know it was well spent and not a band-aid on a major system.

Oh I definitely agree.
I work with a lot of local schools and consult them on equipment - but a lot of it pertains to sound or instruments. I have to be certain that what I recommend will work for them and fit within their budget. Luckily, this particular theatre gets a large sum of money every month from local sales tax that they have to reinvest. I would like to hold off on recommending that they buy all new lights and a whole new board at the moment, though, because they just bought a digital mixer and some new wireless mics. I'll definitely hold off on making them get something new until I understand more about their current system and know what they really need. In a storage room at the back of the theatre, they have a whole mess of lights that were given to them by a church. I don't know of their condition - but I'd like to check them out and see just what I can salvage out of what they've got there!

Thanks a lot of for your messages, everybody! You've all really helped me out!
If somebody can take a look at the blurry photos I posted a let me know what kind of board I'm looking at (the only branding that sticks out to me is "Lite") - then that would be awesome! Can anybody identify the type of lights hanging or give me some tips on what to look for when I head up to the catwalk?

 

[JohnD]

Thanks for responding with such great info.
The good news is I don't think those are Pars, they look like 8 inch ERS(lekos). I can't tell from the photo but some may be the older radial type and some the newer axial type.

Here is what a Par looks like:

Now some advice from this old timer, when going up to the catwalk, wear a hard hat or at least a bike helmet. There is a very high bonkability factor on many catwalks. When checking out the lights(both installed and in your treasure trove) keep an eye out for 2 or 3 separate fuzzy white wires. That would be asbestos.
If by any chance you are a student or teacher anywhere, do check out the ETC bundle. It is a bargain. A one universe dongle and a gadget interface for $250. It also supports both EOS and COBALT (for busking).
EDIT: No idea on the console but one thing to look for on the back panel, what kind of connector for the control cable. A single XLR 3 or 5 pin is likely DMX. Any other connector with multiple pins is likely analog.

 

[michaelpraytor]

Thanks for responding with such great info.
The good news is I don't think those are Pars, they look like 8 inch ERS(lekos). I can't tell from the photo but some may be the older radial type and some the newer axial type.

Thanks so much. To be honest, I forgot that Lekos even existed.

Now some advice from this old timer, when going up to the catwalk, wear a hard hat or at least a bike helmet. There is a very high bonkability factor on many catwalks. When checking out the lights(both installed and in your treasure trove) keep an eye out for 2 or 3 separate fuzzy white wires. That would be asbestos.

Yep - definitely going to bring a hardhat. Catwalks make me nervous anyway - so I tend to be really cautious. Plus I have a slight fear of heights....
This catwalk isn't nearly as high as a few I've been on - but it's the first one that I'll have to crawl through the ceiling to get to... There is a trail of planks in the ceiling that you have to crawl through before you eventually get to a spot you can stand up at. It looks EXTREMELY sketchy.

And thanks so much for warning me of asbestos. My dad experienced a lot of exposure to asbestos while working at a railroad - so of course I try to avoid it!

If by any chance you are a student or teacher anywhere, do check out the ETC bundle. It is a bargain. A one universe dongle and a gadget interface for $250. It also supports both EOS and COBALT (for busking).

I'm not a student or a teacher anywhere - but I've got some connections! I'll check that out!

EDIT: No idea on the console but one thing to look for on the back panel, what kind of connector for the control cable. A single XLR 3 or 5 pin is likely DMX. Any other connector with multiple pins is likely analog.

I believe (and I'm crossing my fingers) that it's DMX. The previous tech guy said that one cable came out of it and led to all the lights. I asked if it was DMX and he said he thought so. He was more of a sound than a light guy also. Hopefully he wasn't just guessing...

Would I be completely screwed if it was analog? Is there some sort of analog to DMX conversion system? Or would everything lighting-wise in the theatre have to be redone?

 

[JohnD]

I am being nit-picky here but you would need a dmx>analog converter. It's just easier for everyone to be on the same page if you state things from the IN to the OUT. Check out this from the Wiki:
https://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/Collaborative-Articles:DIY-DMX:-Demux-Protocol-Converters-etc
It looks a bit dated but still good info.
I should point out that DFD and Pathway are very good friends to the CB community, always very helpful.

 

[Amiers]

Get better pictures of that console.

Front back and the whole nine yards. Pull the connector on the back and see what it is pumping out , take a picture. Then look for a vga Port not to be mistaken by a 232 serial Port the back view picture would help.

yes there are converters but without know what you have we’re just shooting at fish in the ocean.

Require more info.

 

[Rob]

Is there some sort of analog to DMX conversion system?

THIS device will convert 24 channels of analog 0-10v to DMX. You can cascade these and they'll merge if you need more than 24. Let's hope it's DMX as that will save you a lot of pain.

 

[lwinters630]

the light board

The light board is made by EDI called "lite" http://www.parlights.com/electronics-diversified-incorporated-edi-user-manuals/
It has been ages since I've used one. It is a 2 scene cross fade. No go button. Set top row for scene one and bottom for scene 2. Two sliders in middle will cross fade. A delay timer will will time the fade. Set to 5 sec and slide up both faders. Sub masters on left. Fx chase will chase the subs. Thanks for taking me down memory lane.
This is a dmx 512 output, your dimmer rack is most likely EDI although they're out of business you can still have it serviced.
If where that is is a school, have them purchase the ETC Nomad with school package $250 or so. You just need a school email. Add your laptop and second monitor (optonal) and you are all set.
Your back stage panel will have a dmx input so you can also plug in there (only one console on at a time) for working on stage.
Have fun

 

[RickR]

That board has a tiny effects function to match the 2 digit display. Otherwise your cue memory is a piece of paper.

@lwinters630 is dead on. The educational Nomad package is hard to beat. A set of external faders would be huge help to beginner operators if you find the budget. I also suspect you could get the school to provide a computer and a (couple of?) monitors from inventory. In many ways that would be ideal in many ways as it can be stripped of all the network and distracting software that can lead to trouble, especially with students. It's also worth noting that once your students learn this software they will find it useful elsewhere in theater, from churches to Broadway.

 

[Crisp image]

That board has a tiny effects function to match the 2 digit display. Otherwise your cue memory is a piece of paper.

@lwinters630 is dead on. The educational Nomad package is hard to beat. A set of external faders would be huge help to beginner operators if you find the budget.

They could also use the soft faders on tab 28 or as I do faders on oscRFR on the ipad which gives the face panel, encoders and faders. It works for me.
Regards
Geoff

 

[michaelpraytor]

I am being nit-picky here but you would need a dmx>analog converter. It's just easier for everyone to be on the same page if you state things from the IN to the OUT. Check out this from the Wiki:
https://www.controlbooth.com/wiki/Collaborative-Articles:DIY-DMX:-Demux-Protocol-Converters-etc
It looks a bit dated but still good info.
I should point out that DFD and Pathway are very good friends to the CB community, always very helpful.

Ooooh - you're right! I totally stated it wrong in my post. Thanks for pointing that out!
Thankfully - based on info from another member - this console is DMX.

The light board is made by EDI called "lite" http://www.parlights.com/electronics-diversified-incorporated-edi-user-manuals/
It has been ages since I've used one. It is a 2 scene cross fade. No go button. Set top row for scene one and bottom for scene 2. Two sliders in middle will cross fade. A delay timer will will time the fade. Set to 5 sec and slide up both faders. Sub masters on left. Fx chase will chase the subs. Thanks for taking me down memory lane.
This is a dmx 512 output, your dimmer rack is most likely EDI although they're out of business you can still have it serviced.
If where that is is a school, have them purchase the ETC Nomad with school package $250 or so. You just need a school email. Add your laptop and second monitor (optonal) and you are all set.
Your back stage panel will have a dmx input so you can also plug in there (only one console on at a time) for working on stage.
Have fun

Yep! That looks like it - but the image in the manual differs from how I remember the board slightly... The board at the theatre doesn't have the rounded off sides, and has a million other faders (something in the neighborhood of 72 total). It must be an older version of the same model. You're completely correct in the operation of the board - in fact, my girlfriend (who majored in theatre) loaned me her theatrical design textbook and there's a small section detailing ways to run lights on boards with limited features.

I still haven't gotten to go in and take a look at the dimmer rack and other equipment - but I'm prepared to see the worst, because there aren't a whole lot of knowlegeable people in this area to do installation on all that (more stories below).

In regards to you and @RickR , I'm sorry, but I don't believe I stated it very clearly: this particular theatre we're discussing isn't part of a school. BUT I work with three schools outside of this theatre (in a different county). Sorry for the confusion! I was merely stating that my connections with the other schools might allow me to get the ETC Nomad education package. The high school local to this theatre MIGHT eventually incorporate fine arts into its curriculum and begin using this theatre. Believe it or not, their high school is a huge, grand building that was constructed just last year and doesn't include an auditorium. Their only fine arts class (concert band) conducts their performances in the cafeteria or gym.

I don't have a whole lot of info on the background of this theatre, but it underwent a major renovation about a decade or a little less ago. The theatre isn't terribly decadent - it has bright yellow walls, plain red seating, and a bland red ceiling.
Despite the major renovation to the look of the theatre, the tech inside just appears to have been an afterthought. Not a whole lot of lights, no fly system (but automatic curtains), a dinosaur of a light board, and get this: half the channels didn't work on their 24 channel analog Peavey mixer from the 90s. The speakers are also sort of arranged in a strange way - but that's a conversation for another thread.

Still - people from just outside the area are astonished when they enter this theatre. They often compare it to a historic theatre in a neighboring county that is more of a hole-in-the-wall establishment compared to this (still, the hole-in-the-wall is more popular and stages more shows every year). At this theatre, I'm hoping to do the tech properly and set a standard for how things should be in the area. It's more possible here than any of the neighboring theatres, because we're the only one that receives sales tax money every month that we have to re-invest.

Although money isn't scarce - getting a show done is EXTREMELY hard. Here are a couple of issues:

• The theatre is owned and managed by the city, but the theatre board is responsible for its upkeep. When the theatre board isn't putting on events in the theatre, the city shows movies on a huge screen that flies in and rolls downstage. Because they make a huge profit from showing movies, it makes it hard on the theatre board to conduct play rehearsal during the weekends or to build sets on the stage. The city usually only completely relinquishes the theatre to the board the week of the first performances of the show. Because of this, dress rehearsals and set building isn't traditionally done until the week of the show (I'm trying to change this, though).
  
  
• As I mentioned before, the school lacks most fine arts education. Concert band doesn't even begin for them until 9th grade. Due to this - there isn't a lot of community interest in theatre. They've tried to mount a handful of shows in the past and had to back-out due to low audition turnout. Most of the shows they are able to do require very small casts (with a lot of female parts) and tiny combos (or tracks) for musicals. Luckily, the town is 30 minutes or less away from four other artistically enriched communities. This is where a lot of the cast, musicians, and audiences come from. (Even me - I'm 30 minutes away in another town)
  
  
• Lastly, the community is very up-tight and conservative. When the theatre did Little Shop of Horrors about four or five years ago, the local newspaper published (for some reason) that they were mounting The Rocky Horror Show. There was huge backlash from the community, and the newspaper even went as far as to discourage people from coming out to the show. A number of people that saw the show actually complained due to the (relatively mild) language. Moreso here than anywhere else, theatre is treated as if it's something dangerous for the community. Cabaret will CERTAINLY be difficult to stage here - but I think that it can be possible as long as we carefully word our publicity for the show, and tout it as a drama that can "show the consequences of bad decisions". The bad thing here is that there are actual people in this town that would sympathize with the Nazis.
  
  Also on this point - a few years ago, a struggling local children's theatre reached out to a friend of mine about staging a show - any show - that could guarantee to turn a large profit that the children's theatre could use to get out of a large financial hole. They decided to do The Rocky Horror Show, and I was asked to do musical direction. Every theatre in the area had previously refused to do the show in fear of backlash from the community, and we were told that it would not be well-recieved.
  As it turns out - BECAUSE of the taboo nature of the show, the cult following, and the fact that it had never been done in the area before - we sold out every performance and there were never any complaints. The profit was given to the children's theatre, and they were set with rent money for a couple of years.
  
  I learned from that experience that people will come out in droves to see shows just because they're controversial.

Okay - I know my post has been super long, and I apologize for nearly ranting and raving, but it feels nice to get it all out! Plus some of you might be interested in the context of all this or be able to sympathize with these community problems!

Finally - here's a little example of how unknowledgeable people tend to be concerning theatre building and tech in my area:

A city auditorium (where Elvis and a number of others played) in my town was renovated about four years ago. The interior was completely gutted and replaced - and since then, it has lost all the great acoustics it used to have. They contracted a 90-year old "local legend" that runs a music store to install the sound system, due to his prominence in the community, and he installed a small 4-channel mixer (really just one of those cheap Peavey portable PAs with knobs instead of faders) and very underpowered speakers. The city didn't know any better, and it had to be redone a while later after they received a lot of complaints. The lighting in the auditorium is all LED, which is fine, but the only way to control the lights is in a strange panel that they keep locked up in the wings of the stage. Before an event starts, a city official walks in - unlocks the rack and asks the person running the event what color lights they want. Then they lock it back up and you're stuck with whatever your choice was. (Reminder that in my town, this is considered "cutting edge" and "state-of-the-art")