Live Broadcast

[Robert F Jarvis]

We are a all volunteer theater and decided to put on a YouTube live stream of an auction to raise money.
Planning to intersperse pre-recorded videos of singers and live shots of the stage as things progress.
Someone tried using a program on a laptop to switch the feeds but it was unreliable. So we were thinking of getting a small video mixer console.
Then we will have to learn how to 'send' this to YouTube. Thoughts, ideas, recommendations?

 

[FMEng]

Before you buy more expensive equipment, take a look at Open Broadcaster Software's OBS Studio. Not only will it handle the switching duties, but it will also do the encoding for Youtube. Doing playback with it takes some practice if the playback software is on the same machine. I'd do the playback on another computer or DVD player, and bring that video in through another USB converter.

 

[Amiers]

OBS is your best option. Tons of tutorials on YouTube.

 

[macsound]

Encoding video to send to Youtube isn't a lightweight job. When I did my first livestream in 2014 or 2015, the macbook pro I was using, along with Wirecast, would get to about 85% processor usage the entire broadcast. It was still completely usable for what I was doing but if I had to also use the computer even to open notes, you'd run out of compute and the livestream quality would either reduce or crash.

There's lots to say about livestreaming, but if it's one thing I've learned: Only expect one computer to do one job.

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

Hmmmm! Certainly agree about the computer per job. The person who tried this with OBS for us, had nothing but trouble. I have no idea how much time he spent prepping. On the light board and sound boards we make darn good and certain things are going to go well before hand. At times couldn't find the video and when he did couldn't swap it for the live feed so our announcer had to ad lib and then get cut off etc. etc. Luckily we had a very experienced guy who covered the bloops as well as possible.
That's why I was thinking of getting one of these "Blackmagic Mini HDMI Live Stream Switcher" for less than $300. Output said to be YouTube friendly.

 

[macsound]

What the ATEM Mini Pro ($595) does is emulate a webcam.
If you're on a mac, I'd recommend sticking with OBS. getting the cheaper ATEM Mini (non-pro) $295 and the $100 ultra studio recorder (Thunderbolt capture into Mac).
Then you can use the switcher if you want, but if you teardown and end up just broadcasting straight from a camera or computer, you can do it. You should also be able to get higher video bandwidth because it's a straight capture instead of a software webcam emulation.

Also, if you do already already have the video capture cards, the way to get your video into a computer which seems like you might since you did a test, you can use one computer with OBS to switch, output to your second computer using NDI over ethernet, 2nd computer using OBS streams to Youtube.

Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[FMEng]

Encoding video to send to Youtube isn't a lightweight job. When I did my first livestream in 2014 or 2015, the macbook pro I was using, along with Wirecast, would get to about 85% processor usage the entire broadcast. It was still completely usable for what I was doing but if I had to also use the computer even to open notes, you'd run out of compute and the livestream quality would either reduce or crash.

There's lots to say about livestreaming, but if it's one thing I've learned: Only expect one computer to do one job.

It's a balancing act between bit-rate, encoding speed, and stream reliability. I found that an i7 laptop could manage about 2 Mbps and a few steps slower than the fastest encoding reliably, at 30 fps. Slower encoding yields better quality, but takes a lot more processing power, as does a higher frame rate. You have to test, and do it long enough to catch some dropped frames.

 

[Amiers]

Hmmmm! Certainly agree about the computer per job. The person who tried this with OBS for us, had nothing but trouble. I have no idea how much time he spent prepping. On the light board and sound boards we make darn good and certain things are going to go well before hand. At times couldn't find the video and when he did couldn't swap it for the live feed so our announcer had to ad lib and then get cut off etc. etc. Luckily we had a very experienced guy who covered the bloops as well as possible.
That's why I was thinking of getting one of these "Blackmagic Mini HDMI Live Stream Switcher" for less than $300. Output said to be YouTube friendly.

Sounds like the person you had operating OBS just didn’t do his homework.

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

What the ATEM Mini Pro ($595) does is emulate a webcam.
If you're on a mac, I'd recommend sticking with OBS. getting the cheaper ATEM Mini (non-pro) $295 and the $100 ultra studio recorder (Thunderbolt capture into Mac).
Then you can use the switcher if you want, but if you teardown and end up just broadcasting straight from a camera or computer, you can do it. You should also be able to get higher video bandwidth because it's a straight capture instead of a software webcam emulation.

Also, if you do already already have the video capture cards, the way to get your video into a computer which seems like you might since you did a test, you can use one computer with OBS to switch, output to your second computer using NDI over ethernet, 2nd computer using OBS streams to Youtube.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Mostly. When he couldn't switch I suggested pulling the HDMI from the camera (we used a HMDI/USB capture widget) with the HDMI from the prerecorded video and he nearly fell off his chair. I think Amiers is on the right tract. I will try to to get a demo copy of OBS but still thinking that a dedicated box with a ethernet out output suitable for YouTube tube upload will save a lot of homework on bits rates yada yada. Good quality video requires a lot of processing power and these switcher boxes are taking on that workload and are designed to do just that. Thanks for all the comments out there. I have made a lot of notes and plan to pursue different ways before our next event .

 

[Amiers]

OBS is free. No need to find a demo.

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

Ouch! Can't argue with that. I'll probably be back with a few question once I have it downloaded. Than you.

 

[Rod Reilly]

Bodymics rents the ATEM Mini and the ATEM Mini Pro , that will interface with any Mac or PC with OSB it allows for 4 HDMI inputs (and most current laptops output to HDMI) Use one laptop to encode/stream and another to playback other videos, slides whatever.

Rent for the ATEM Mini is $80 for up to 7 days including shipping anywhere in the lower 48. Extra days are just $8.00 each the Pro is $120 first 7 days then $12 per day

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

Probably upset a few folks here but as we are going to be doing a lot more of this stuff we're going to buy the ATEM Mini. Plug camera straight in to one HMDI in and the Camera into another. The ATEM will also allow us a "Intro" slide etc. I think we can train multiple operators without any software learning curve. What did confuse me was that my reading of the ATEM specs suggests it already provides a encoded stream specifically for YouTube. This would save setting up and operating a second computer. Or did I get this wrong?

 

[Rod Reilly]

There are 2 models - the ATEM Mini @ $300 needs the PC to encode and stream, the ATEM Mini Pro ($600) will encode and stream directly via a wired internet connection, THERE IS SETUP REQUIRED, BUT ONCE SET-UP FOR STREAMING TO YOUTUBE IT STAYS SET UNTIL YOU CHANGE IT.

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

Thanks you for clearing that up for me. Once running we wouldn't be proposing to make any changes.

 

[StradivariusBone]

If you're on a mac, I'd recommend sticking with OBS. getting the cheaper ATEM Mini (non-pro) $295 and the $100 ultra studio recorder (Thunderbolt capture into Mac).

So we did that setup. One thing to keep in mind is the Ultra Studio Recorder maxes out at 1080p 30. The ATEM Mini can output all the way up to 59.94. If you need the extra frame rate, I'd recommend trying the route that Rod mentioned and go for the Pro that can do the encoding locally. I do also know that BMD just came out with a new Ultra Studio Recorder that is compatible with the new Thunderbolt (USB C) connector. I don't know if it can handle the higher framerate encoding or not.

I ran into this with a Canon DSLR that has a special "clean HDMI" mode that puts out 1080 or 4k at 59.94 and the Recorder wouldn't touch it.

Also, just another generic comment about how amazing OBS is. We did exactly what you're trying to do with my band director's award ceremony. Preloaded all his produced videos as "scenes" and just switched to the media on the fly. You could get even fancier and maybe link it to a QLab output window, but if it's only a few videos it's no biggie.

 

[josh88]

There are 2 models - the ATEM Mini @ $300 needs the PC to encode and stream, the ATEM Mini Pro ($600) will encode and stream directly via a wired internet connection, THERE IS SETUP REQUIRED, BUT ONCE SET-UP FOR STREAMING TO YOUTUBE IT STAYS SET UNTIL YOU CHANGE IT.

There are actually 3 models now, the tier above the Pro is the ATEM Mini ISO. That one allows you to record all 4 inputs and the output separately but simultaneously so that you can also edit it after the fact.

 

[Robert F Jarvis]

So we did that setup. One thing to keep in mind is the Ultra Studio Recorder maxes out at 1080p 30. The ATEM Mini can output all the way up to 59.94. If you need the extra frame rate, I'd recommend trying the route that Rod mentioned and go for the Pro that can do the encoding locally. I do also know that BMD just came out with a new Ultra Studio Recorder that is compatible with the new Thunderbolt (USB C) connector. I don't know if it can handle the higher framerate encoding or not.

I ran into this with a Canon DSLR that has a special "clean HDMI" mode that puts out 1080 or 4k at 59.94 and the Recorder wouldn't touch it.

Also, just another generic comment about how amazing OBS is. We did exactly what you're trying to do with my band director's award ceremony. Preloaded all his produced videos as "scenes" and just switched to the media on the fly. You could get even fancier and maybe link it to a QLab output window, but if it's only a few videos it's no biggie.

I should have mentioned this way up front but Not Mac!

 

[lightingtek]

I've been using OBS to broadcast football games (had to find another way to fill my days since my school is not doing live theatre at the moment). Our sports broadcast club usually uses a dedicated PC with multiple video inputs from cameras (SDI or HDMI), 4 monitor outputs, multiple hard drives for live playback (instant replay) from any camera, and operates on VMix. It's a huge setup that takes about 30 minutes to fully setup at any of our sporting events and a minimum of 5 people to operate. I wanted a smaller rig to do one man broadcasts of some of our smaller games since we aren't allowing parents in the stands, and some of the schools we are playing at don't follow mask protocols so I wanted them to have another option to watch their kids play. Enter, the ATEM Mini paired with OBS and my 15" macbook pro. I run 2 cameras into the ATEM mini, use one as a scoreboard capture and set it up as PiP (a feature of the ATEM), run it into my MacBook with OBS. Inside of OBS (all on the same machine) I run animated title cards, lower thirds, scrolling text, and pre recorded commercials from some of our sports broadcast clubs sponsors. My CPU usage rarely spikes above 15%, and that is with broadcasting live to YouTube, and recording the broadcast locally onto my internal hard drive, both via OBS (I currently have the ATEM Mini - NON pro, so it does not have onboard recording or stream capabilities). I love this setup, the only thing it does not have is a multiview output from the ATEM Mini. I am looking into buying an ATEM Mini PRO solely for the multiview output option.

 

[StradivariusBone]

That sounds really fun! One thing I would point you towards is the Elgato Stream Deck. We use the ATEM Television Studio for the church I PT for and one of our volunteers has been using it with an open source software called Companion and it allows you to automate a ton of the functionality of the ATEM devices since BMD uses a pretty open API. He's got all his lower 3rd stuff and PIP setup in companion so he can access it all with the push of a button or two. The ATEM TV has a lot of horsepower but it didn't offer as much in the way of macros as we'd hoped and the Stream Deck bridged that for us in a big way. It can control OBS as well.