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Looking for Color scrollers

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by Met, Feb 8, 2005.

  1. Met

    Met Member

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    Location:
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    I am looking to possibly purchase 8 color scrollers with gel roll and all the necessary equipment. New or used. I have a VERY small budget (as I am working for a local church). If you have any leads or DONATIONS please let me know.

    Thanks
     
  2. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    One might go to E-Bay as the primary place such things are listed. Otherwise hundreds of individual companies either have gear they are looking to sell or might part with given your interest in them. Perhaps contact some local companies to you. Otherwise ProSound http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/ has a marketplace you can both post your request to for free, and list things being sold. Also Lighting Network and Stagecraft in their normal postings allow at least once a year a company to list what they are looking to sell off. Perhaps in a search with either, you might find a hit.

    Perhaps even find someone looking to give to a good home while doubtful. As for new or... in the case for new gear that's another story with both local and remote supplier sources available. Perhaps thousands of them out there. Unfortunately either by way of used gear or given away gear should you be so fortunate, you probably will have to buy the cable if not also power supplies for it seperately. Make sure that you get the data cable and power supplies designed to feed your scrollers as in cable alone there is at least three types of scroller power/data cable on the market. While some such as a Chroma Q or Martin four pin cable will work with all, others, won't work with the others.

    Chroma Q type having both data and power in the same cable, plus the ground and or shield as a fifth pin as part of the plug's outer shell. This as opposed to Color Ram types that also have power and data but no shield attached to the shell. than there is just cables with data in it and no hope for also powering up a fixture. Not something to play around with mixing and matching.

    Gear Source (Used Light/Sound Equipment Dist.) Www.gear-source.com
    Light Broker.com (Used Lights & Equipment Distributer) http://www.lightbroker.com/index.htm
    Light Monger (Used Lighting Equipment Distributor) http://www.lightmonger.com
    Used Lighting.com Four Wall Entertainment (Used Lighting Equipment Distributer) http://www.usedlighting.com
    Used Intelligent Lighting .com (Used Lighting Equipment Distributer) http://www.usedintelligentlighting.com
     
  3. Met

    Met Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks for so many options. I will check them out.
     
  4. DJErik07

    DJErik07 Active Member

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    I was able to get a Wybron CXI color scroller cheep off a friend. I did not realize that the power sullpy costs almost $1,000. The cable costs about $50 for a 25 ft piece. The scroller itself costs $1,300!!

    I have yet to find an affordable and good quality scroller. Eight scrollers, power supply, and cables will cost you a good chunk of money ($7,000++) Good luck.

    (PS- If anyone has a Wybron CXI Power supply they are willing to sell please email me)
     
  5. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    Above used gear websites might have something of interest if not in contacting both data cable suppliers and production companies.

    In further saving money,

    The manual did not say anything about having a ground/shieldwire attached to the scroller control cable so in addition to Wybron scroller cable, Color Ram, and Chroma Q type four pin cable will work as with many others as long as it has pin's one and four as 14AWG wire, and two and three as normal say 22AWG wire. As opposed to Chroma Q - or was that Color Ram cable that uses the shell of the plug for the shield, there is lots of options here as long as pins one and four are 14AWG. It also won't matter if it has that shield or not.

    Many general theater suppliers and other types of supply companies offer a or their own generic scroller cable that will also work given the above.

    Martin also makes scroller cable that will work and given each scroller comes with a 15' cable, some production companies that use the scrollers but don't need a few hundred 15' cables might sell them at a discounted price considering it was free. You might have to re-solder one or both ends of the Martin cable however as their quality control as far as strip length, or was that screwing the strain relief down is not that good. What ever the case, I get lots of cases of cable stretch on otherwise good if even brand new scroller cable.

    In other words, if the cable of one brand seems too high in price, perhaps you can find some that is less expensive when used or thru another dealer be it having it made for you or in it being pre-made. Just be sure it has the 14ga wires, and they are in the proper pin configeration. There are other types of scroller cable that don't get their power thru the data cable - this also might help to figure out what you can and cannot use.

    As for the power supplies, it's possible that another brand of power supply talks the same language as that of the Wybron. You might be able find something used that will work - speculation on my part. Given you see something used or new that might work in having it's specs sound the same, contact the manufacturer of that product, explain your problem and see if it would talk the same language otherwise see if you can test it if local. Chances are they would know what the Wybron is doing.

    Just some thoughts. I stock three above grades of scroller cable and it does not matter the brand of the scroller used with it. First is the without 14ga wire. Second has the 14ga wires, and the third has it plus the shield wire going to the shell. All will work with the first class, the third class will work with the second class of cable in solving shortage problems.
     
  6. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    As for gel strings if this than becomes an option, it really is no more than a bunch of gels of appropriate size taped together. J-Lar tape as a specific type of high temperature tape is what 1" clear tape is used most often to make a custom roll. Otherwise products such as a Spectape F-M815-1x72-c clear Polyester Silicone Splicing tape in being similar and about the same thing, and even normal 1" or 3/4" packaging tape will often work given a fan to cool the gel string.

    Believe it's a tape outboard type of thing in allowing the higher temperature of the gel to absorb the direct heat. On normal packaging tape, I like Scotch. J-Lar tape is not that expensive on the other hand and as long as you mark it for scroller use only (as it it would prevent stupid people use), a roll will last a good long time.

    Simply a question of cutting the offending gels out of the string and replacing them with what you wish.

    On the other hand, and especially if these scrollers did not come with a heat shield gel that is placed before the gel string on the scroller, it is very necessary especially if there is not a fan - and even than often. Premere Stage Lighting (if I remember the brand correctly) has excellent heat shield but expensive - charged by the square inch, otherwise there is other products on the market that do the same.
     
  7. DJErik07

    DJErik07 Active Member

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    I have a heat sheld and 2 fans on my scroller, but you would not believe how fast the gels burn!! About the power supply, Wybron CXI can only use their own power supplies(at least that is what they say). But even if you can get the cable, scrolls, and power supply at a cheep price, there is still the cost of the scroller unit.
     
  8. Sam_

    Sam_ Member

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    If you have no budget and it's for one particular church arrangement, just rent 'em. The cost over time of renting them over and over goes over the price of buying, but when each show has a certain budget there's no way to buy scrollers with the tiny amount of money you get. If you DO have a nice seven or eight grand in budget, I say go for it. It'll save you money in the long run if you use them enough.
     
  9. theatrelighting

    theatrelighting Member

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    I work with a children's community theater organization and I am thinking about purchasing about 6 scrollers. I don't need them to be very fancy, I am just looking for them to be able to scroll at least 10 frames at a decent speed. I've been looking around on the internet and I found some old, used Wybron scrollers that don't need power supplies:

    Wybron Scroller - UsedLighting.com

    Even though these are outdated, I think it would serve my purpose. What do you think?
     
  10. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    If you just need units that work, then those will probably do it. You will probably have to buy new gel strings for them, but I am sure that Wybron will still make you them for those units. They will be a little bit of a PITA to set up as you will have to run non-dim power to each of them, but you do save the cost of a PSU. Make sure that you have enough 5-pin cable to hook them all up.
     
  11. Brownlight

    Brownlight Member

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    Occupation:
    Lighting designer
    Location:
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    Hey All
    I use to be the Wybron Tech support guy so when it comes to scrollers I hope I can help. Wybron makes a great scroller its just a bit pricey but it will last for the next 20yrs :) Theres alot of choice out there but its hard to find used ones on the mark I have an inside door so if you looking I can send you to the right people to buy demo or used units let me know

    John
     
  12. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    Alex, do you know if these units have other back plates available than the 10 inch size or 7 1.2 inch ? from the manual it is hard to tell. Have you worked with this model? wondered what you opinion would be on making up a 6 1/4 inch back plate
    Sharyn
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
  13. icewolf08

    icewolf08 CBMod CB Mods

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    Occupation:
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    I don't know if they still manufacture backplates for these units, but I am sure that a quick call or email to Wybron should get you an answer. They are usually pretty quick about responding. Also, you never know, they might have some stashed under a desk somewhere.

    As for making your own, probably not that hard if you are good in the metal shop. If nothing else, it shouldn't be difficult to fabricate an adapter.
     
  14. dramatech

    dramatech Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
    MASTER ELECTRICIAN
    Location:
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    As a person that has now purchased used and damaged scrollers, and then brought them back to life, there are several very servicable brands and several that will cost you a lot regardless of used or new.
    Over the years, until fairly recently, most all scrollers were made by just a few companies. Camelont in Sweden manufactured the Strand Colour call and the Rainbow. Spectrum engineering in Canada, manufactured the Chroma-Q, and the Apollo Q series along with many others. Both Spectrum and Camelont use pretty much the same parts for everything except the circuit boards, so much so, that the gel rolls and mounting plates are interchangeable.
    Wybron scrollers have been considered the top of the line and the Coloram model has been the backbone of the lighting rental business. The first scroller of the Wybron line was "The Scroller". These are what is mentioned mostly in this thread. The feedback pot has limits, and if you don't use the pricisely correct gel and load it exactly as instructed, the limit can be exceeded and if left with a command from the board that the scroller can't produce because of hitting the limit, the motor drive circuits will overhead and burn up. Most of the time they will also burn the circuit board. Trying to get parts or service for these scrollers is near impossible. The "forerunner" by Wybron is a middle of the road scroller, that is comaptible with most of the rest of single roll scrollers on the market. This means that they can use each others power supplies and cables, and can actually be in the daisy chain with scrollers of a different manufacture. This is because most scrollers use a four pin XLR connector, with pin 1 gnd for both the power and the DMX data. Pin 2 is data (DMX) minus, pin 3 is data plus and pin four is 24 volts DC. Now don't be confused, but The coloram by Wyron, while using the 4 pin XLR reverses pins 1 and 4, and the data is a proprietary Wybron data signal that does a two way communication with the power supply. So even if you can find colorams used for little money, it is very likely that you will not find a used coloram supply cheaply. Morpheus is even less compatible, in that power is plus on pin 3 and minus on pin 4, with data on pins 1 and 2. Plus the Morpheus supplies provide nonregulated power.
    I have put together quite a nice system of scrollers with cables and power supplies for less money than I could purchase a coloram supply.
    Because I purchase for a community theatre with my own money, I would avoid anything from Wyron except the "Forerunner", and then I would have to get a really good price before purchasing that system. I have five different label names on my 41 scrollers, and they are almost all either manufactured by Camelont, or Spectrum. I have made all of my own cables, and power supplies.
    When buying used I primarily look for Chroma Qs, specifically the original with the three screwdrive selected address wheels. They are a little more difficult to load the gel strings, but they maintain their position during a power failure, and don't stress the gelstring doing an autocalibrate routine.
    If I were to purchase scrollers new at this time, it would be the Apollo brand. They have the most features and reliability for the price. Just my opinions.
     
  15. Kelite

    Kelite Apollo Staff Premium Member

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    Location:
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    If you've considered the Smart Color then wait 'til you see the NEW Apollo Smart Color being introduced at LDI. It has additional features over the original Smart Color and continues to be a reliable theater partner with an emphasis on value.

    Stop by booth #643 for a live demo!
     
  16. highschooltech

    highschooltech Active Member

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    They are good scrollers other than the fact they are offensively loud, even while not moving.
     
  17. wybronaaron

    wybronaaron Member

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    Sorry I'm late wading in here! Feel free to give us a call, Met, if you've got any technical questions about used gear, and we'd be happy to help however we can. As a few people mentioned, one of the benefit of using any Wybron stuff is that it tends to be ridiculously long-lived; we've got original Scrollers still in use after 30 years. Thanks!

    719/548-9774
    [email protected]
     
  18. jmac

    jmac Active Member

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    May have been lucky, but earlier this year I picked up 5 Apollo Smart Colors with power supply, about a year old, but never used, on ebay, for about $1500. It pays to look around, but you may have to be real patient. I think I saved about $1000 vs. all new. I then got used scroller P&D cable from local rental shop..

    Five wasn't quite enough, so I bought three more new ones, SC's again, mainly for the Beechies I had heard so much about on CB. I think that is Kelite's job, to make sure they get put in with each shipment.... :)

    One comment- The new ones had the Universal mounting plate, which I found very frustrating to adjust correctly. I traded them in for sets of three fixed plates.. easier for me..
     
  19. SHARYNF

    SHARYNF Well-Known Member

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    I see the Smart color's on ebay but also an X-press which looks very much like an Apollo. Anyone have any comments or experience?
    Sharyn
     
  20. dramatech

    dramatech Well-Known Member

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    Occupation:
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    The x-press is a recent product, I have had a hard tme finding consistent dealer arrangements. I fear that they are a chinese rip-off, but I could be corrected on that point. The only info I could find had a great price, maybe too good. A little more research and time will tell.
     

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