I am currently in the process of researching grad schools, however I am unsure of how to find the particular program I am looking for. I am a senior undergrad student who has a passion for both scenic design and technical direction. For the past few months now, I have been going back and forth on what I would like to pursue an MFA in. I have finally come to the decision that I simply can't choose between the two. I want to be in a learning environment where I can learn about both of these fields at the highest possible degree that a program can offer me. Does anyone out there know of good MFA programs that focus on both scenic design and tding? Or, maybe a good scenic design program that has a strong emphasis on technical direction, and vice versa? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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Yale, CMU, Cal Arts, Florida State...
With few exceptions, most grad programs tend to role those two things together to some degree. The amount they do this does vary though. If you want to TD, you need to know design and vice versa.
Few things to ask yourself though... is there a reason why you don't want to go out and work for a few years to further refine what you are looking to do? MFA's help, but job experience is what gets you hired. If your undergrad gave you a good footing, there is no reason why you can't just start working and learn while working. If I get a resume' with an MFA and not much work experience I discount it vs a resume' with lots of work and a BA or BFA. Something to consider before you wrap 3 mores years and more debt up in your education.
With few exceptions, most grad programs tend to role those two things together to some degree. The amount they do this does vary though. If you want to TD, you need to know design and vice versa.
Few things to ask yourself though... is there a reason why you don't want to go out and work for a few years to further refine what you are looking to do? MFA's help, but job experience is what gets you hired. If your undergrad gave you a good footing, there is no reason why you can't just start working and learn while working. If I get a resume' with an MFA and not much work experience I discount it vs a resume' with lots of work and a BA or BFA. Something to consider before you wrap 3 mores years and more debt up in your education.
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Well I already have two summer stocks under my belt, so I do have some work experience. In my mind, it just seems as though going to grad school is the right/logical choice. I'm one of those people who enjoys school very much and loves to learn in an education setting. However, I definitely understand that you can learn quite a bit in the professional world. Some of the most important aspects of technical theatre I've learned in the professional world. I guess I'm sort of fixed into the mind set that I have to go to grad school right after undergrad. Do you think there is a certain amount of professional experience one can have that can make their time in grad school even better?
Short answer is yes. The most successful students have a goal when attending school. Many of those have gone to work in "the real world" and then go back to school knowing what they need to study. On the other hand, getting a job that encompasses your life may make it difficult to go back to school. That may or may not be a bad thing depending on your personality.
In my opinion, coming from a person who did not do the grad school thing, at least 3 years. After that amount of time you will enter grad school knowing what you don't know and know what you need to learn instead of having someone tell you what you should be learning. That time will also allow you to figure out what you really want to do. You could find yourself enjoying the event production world where degrees don't matter. You could find that you want to work in the regional market where degrees do matter. There are many ways to go about a career in this industry and a graduate degree guarantees you nothing. I have multiple MFA's on my call list that are fighting for the same jobs as people with bachelor degrees or no degree at all... and they are all working for a person with a BFA... and my boss does not have a single degree to his name.
If you ever want to teach, you have to have that MFA. That is one reason a lot of people get them. The connections you can make while at school can also help. Many of the top schools are extremely good about hiring their own.. and many of their own are in hiring roles at various theaters across the country.
Right now though I would look at exploring everything in the production world besides theatre. Get on the call list of your local road house (if your version of Upstate NY includes Albany send a resume' to me). Get your feet wet doing sound, lighting, and anything else that you can. Read the ETCP candidate handbook and figure out what you should be learning that you are not. If you want to design, make sure your art skills are top notch. Either way you go, you should be looking at getting either your ETCP cert if you want to be a TD or get into USA829 if you want to design as a goal post graduation.
I'm starting to look at grad school in a year or two, honestly I'm glad I waited and got some time working. I'd already had a lot of experience, but I can 100% say what is go back to school for now is NOT what I would have gone for directly out of undergrad. The last few years have let me focus more on what I like and don't like in a professional world and have changed my fresh out of college bright eyed ideas. Now I know what kind of work is available in the areas I love or want to love and what I want to spend more time doing. Needless to say I thought I'd figured that all out years ago.
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BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Just correcting one note above, at Yale School of Drama - it is one or the other in terms of classes. It is probably still possible for a tech student to take a design course, and not unknown for a tech student to end up in a design career - but you really have to make a choice.
As far as time off - so many issues - from financial aid to family and on - no one right answer for everyone and every school in my opinion. Three years of experience and you could find the first year of some grad schools is boring or you learned a lot of "wrong ways" - at least according to the school.
I worked a year between SUNY Potsdam - which I crammed into 3 years with no debt - and Yale - but then I wasn't accepted out right and had made up my mind there was no place else. I lucked out that my professor was taking a sabbatical and I filled in and reapplied to Yale and went. (And I did a year in tech and then started over in design and then ended up in a career that is normally for tech students - go figure.)
If you are certain you're ready to go to grad school, go. If you have some hesitation - work a year and re-evaluate in 6 months. Don't minimize the financial issues or perhaps I should say work hard to minimize debt - which might mean working and being separated from your family for financial reasons is good.
As far as time off - so many issues - from financial aid to family and on - no one right answer for everyone and every school in my opinion. Three years of experience and you could find the first year of some grad schools is boring or you learned a lot of "wrong ways" - at least according to the school.
I worked a year between SUNY Potsdam - which I crammed into 3 years with no debt - and Yale - but then I wasn't accepted out right and had made up my mind there was no place else. I lucked out that my professor was taking a sabbatical and I filled in and reapplied to Yale and went. (And I did a year in tech and then started over in design and then ended up in a career that is normally for tech students - go figure.)
If you are certain you're ready to go to grad school, go. If you have some hesitation - work a year and re-evaluate in 6 months. Don't minimize the financial issues or perhaps I should say work hard to minimize debt - which might mean working and being separated from your family for financial reasons is good.
My advice to you would be to reevaluate your decision to go to grad school. Not because I believe that grad school is a bad idea--for some people, it's absolutely the right choice--but because it doesn't seem like you know why you want to go or what you want to get out of it. Look, this industry is a huge one that covers countless facets.
Many grad schools (note that I didn't say "all", everyone who has an MFA and is now furiously typing a diatribe about why I'm wrong,) tend to focus on one aspect of the business: the regional theatre musical/play. That's all well and good if that's truly what you want to do, but that's just one tiny part of the business. There's so much more out there to experience, jobs that you still don't know exist that you could turn out to love more than the one job that you know. And I just get nervous thinking about you sinking another three years of your life into the one corner of the industry that you know just because you haven't experienced anything else.
I guess what I'm trying to say (not very well, I'm afraid, as I'm only half a Red Bull deep,) is that I would urge you to think about grad school differently. Grad school should be a supplement to your education, not a milestone of life. You should be going to grad school because you feel that there is a gap in your education preventing you from moving forward into the job you want, not just because it seems like the right thing to do. You should go into grad school knowing where you are, where you want to go next, and what you need to get out of school in order to make that step. So I would tell you to go work for a while. Two summer stocks is a great start, but as someone on the hiring end that's only about six months of professional work experience, and I generally like to see something more than that. So go experience life for a while. Learn what it's like to rely on your craft to put food in your mouth and work stupid long hours on no sleep and how to dig yourself out when there's 1,000 people sitting out there waiting for a show and the sh*t hits the fan. You might be surprised by how much bigger the world is than you know. (I'm just saying, since my undergrad I've changed my "dream job" at least six times.) If after a couple years you still feel like you need the higher degree, then go for it, but I guarantee you'll get more out of it than you will now.
Many grad schools (note that I didn't say "all", everyone who has an MFA and is now furiously typing a diatribe about why I'm wrong,) tend to focus on one aspect of the business: the regional theatre musical/play. That's all well and good if that's truly what you want to do, but that's just one tiny part of the business. There's so much more out there to experience, jobs that you still don't know exist that you could turn out to love more than the one job that you know. And I just get nervous thinking about you sinking another three years of your life into the one corner of the industry that you know just because you haven't experienced anything else.
I guess what I'm trying to say (not very well, I'm afraid, as I'm only half a Red Bull deep,) is that I would urge you to think about grad school differently. Grad school should be a supplement to your education, not a milestone of life. You should be going to grad school because you feel that there is a gap in your education preventing you from moving forward into the job you want, not just because it seems like the right thing to do. You should go into grad school knowing where you are, where you want to go next, and what you need to get out of school in order to make that step. So I would tell you to go work for a while. Two summer stocks is a great start, but as someone on the hiring end that's only about six months of professional work experience, and I generally like to see something more than that. So go experience life for a while. Learn what it's like to rely on your craft to put food in your mouth and work stupid long hours on no sleep and how to dig yourself out when there's 1,000 people sitting out there waiting for a show and the sh*t hits the fan. You might be surprised by how much bigger the world is than you know. (I'm just saying, since my undergrad I've changed my "dream job" at least six times.) If after a couple years you still feel like you need the higher degree, then go for it, but I guarantee you'll get more out of it than you will now.
chawalang
Well-Known Member
If your really torn as far as what you want to go to grad school for then dont go at all,for now. Work for at least 5 years and work from the bottom up shlep cable and build on that. I have my degree but honestly would not be where I am at if i hadn't of gone out into the real world and applied myself. Really what it comes down to is if you want to teach, then yes get the MFA if not you really don't need to. A buddy of mine is at Yale now and has told me that it is more of an artistic program as oppose to one the harps on technology so again it depends what you want. he started of as a TD/LD guy when he was done with his BA and then decided after working for 8 years that he wanted to go into more of the admin/td/ facility management role but want to teach eventually, so an MFA is needed. If you only have two summer stocks under your belt I don't think you really have the background to get into a good program, so go out and get your chops going. I have said this before on this board but look at working on cruise ships or touring do as much different stuff as possible to really wrap your mind around different things, you wont really get a lot of that in the classroom. Do theatre but do corporate events, trade shows, A/V work, shop work etc. take your self out of your comfort zone as much as possible, if you do so i can almost guarantee that in a few years you'll look back and have a completely different view on what you wanted to do when you finished your undergrad. In my personal experience i plan to go back to school but for an M.S in Non profit management so I can work in an admin operations role for an arts organization, eventually my body will give out and I wont be able to/ not want to be a laboring stage hand anymore. When i finshed my BA I would have never thought about going to grad school to do that, it took 7 years working professionally out of college for me to figure that out.
JChenault
Well-Known Member
It pains me to say this as a graduate of Florida State, but I would not recommend them at this time. My understanding is that they have terminated the design/tech graduate program.
I have been thinking about what you guys have been saying for a few days now, and I have to say, I think taking some time to work in the field is definitely the right decision. I'm starting to realize that there is a lot more I would like to experience before dedicating three years of my life to something that I'm only kind of sure I want to do. There are so many aspects of this business that I have not been exposed to yet, and the more I think about it, going to grad school before experiencing those areas would almost be kind of a sin. I think I might know why I was so "gun-ho" about going to grad school right away. All of my professors went to grad school right after undergrad, so I think they have been influencing me on a subconscious level. I think I'd still like to go to the URTA's and see what comes out of it though. But ideally (and I believe this was mentioned above a few times), I'd like to find a really good, 1+ year(s) internship where I can get a taste of everything that I possibly can, and than go from there. I'd love to keep this thread alive for as long as possible for anyone else that may be in my place, but let me just say thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread and who have helped me come to this decision.
Don't sell yourself short that you have to get an internship. There is no reason why you can't get a "real" job.
And yes, the fact that many professors go straight from undergrad to grad to a teaching position is why many people do the same. Its one of the major problems with the theater ed system.
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And yes, the fact that many professors go straight from undergrad to grad to a teaching position is why many people do the same. Its one of the major problems with the theater ed system.
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chawalang
Well-Known Member
I am assuming that you are about to enter your last year of undergrad. Look at going to USITT and SETC for gigs. I would not recommend to go to URTA, it's more of a cattle call grad school audition and audition for internships. SETC has a job fair you can go to that has an array of opportunities from summer stock, regional theatre, small tours and cruise ships. Same things at UISTT but not as much, USITT has a lot of grad school's there as well so students can get more info from them in a less formal setting. Both give you an opportunity to check out industry stuff on the trade show floor as well. I would recommend both of these, I went to USITT my last year of undergrad and was offered a full time job after I graduated from an organization I met there. The same thing happened to me at SETC two years after that, I got another full time gig from going to the job fair. I know your professor's may push you to go to URTA but and I know I may tempt the wrath of certain people on here by saying this, they are professors, they are not working in the industry, they teach.
MPowers
Well-Known Member
Finding the right Grad school is like finding the right person to spend the rest of your life with. What is right for John Doe is not right for you. 100 different individuals will have a 100 different right answers. I found the perfect match through URTA. I've been a USITT member since 1969 and also found many potential schools there as well. The match I found was perfect because of the personnel there at the time, my own past experience and etc etc. Why was it so right?? Well, these names will probably be meaningless to you, but to many here they will be a who's who list of prominent educators of the 60's-70's. Frank Silberstien, Gary Giser, Richard Scammon, Oscar Brocket, Hubert Hefner.
The bottom line is no one here can tell you which school is right for you. Visit, meet the faculty, check out the facility. Remember, the most modern facility with the best technology may not be the right set up for you. Maybe it is, but don't let bells and whistles make your choice.
When I was applying to grad schools, a certain school with "brand new" technology and "state of the art" rigging designed by an industry "star" offered me a full ride. Another school with a TD turned historian, a classical philosopher and costume designer extraordinaire, offered tuition waiver. I took the second and have never regretted it. In fact, 12 years later, I was hired to correct the problems created by the same Industry "star" when he designed a facility for the architect instead of the client.
None of us can tell you what is the "right" Grad School for you, we can only tell you our own personal experience and let you judge from there.
The bottom line is no one here can tell you which school is right for you. Visit, meet the faculty, check out the facility. Remember, the most modern facility with the best technology may not be the right set up for you. Maybe it is, but don't let bells and whistles make your choice.
When I was applying to grad schools, a certain school with "brand new" technology and "state of the art" rigging designed by an industry "star" offered me a full ride. Another school with a TD turned historian, a classical philosopher and costume designer extraordinaire, offered tuition waiver. I took the second and have never regretted it. In fact, 12 years later, I was hired to correct the problems created by the same Industry "star" when he designed a facility for the architect instead of the client.
None of us can tell you what is the "right" Grad School for you, we can only tell you our own personal experience and let you judge from there.
I would also say, the benefits of internships over entry level jobs are many. First off, you have the opportunity to intern at more than one location in a shorter amount of time whereas short term employment at an actual job can be frowned on by future employers (freelancing was already a pain when trying to prove income for a home loan). You can get many more professional contacts when you apply yourself. Also, you may have the opportunity to work at a more prestigious employer earlier on in your career through an internship than doing all you can to get noticed at an entry level position. Obviously there can be downsides to internships such as those that don't pay (I had to turn down Capitol Records when I was in college) or employers who don't know what to do with interns (though you might get good at making coffee). Either way, I do say that the decision to figure out what you really want to get out of school is an extremely good idea before jumping right in to graduate school. Then you will know if graduate school is really the right thing for your future.
scenicsauthoff
Member
I didnt read all of these so I may be repeating some advice. I am currently in the same boat. I applied to Yale, CMU, UNC Chapel Hill, Ohio U, and SIUC. So far I've been accepted to 4 out of five school which had been great. But their program.s all very a little. Ohio and SIU all students to have a second concentration so you can TD and design. However the other 3 are strictly TD, or whatever program you choose. But I think I comes down to where you want to go and what you want to do with your life. Which is why I personally choose to just TD. Yet I could see myself designing smaller shows in the future. However taking 2 years off and working in different theatres in different areas of yhe country have helped guide me to where I truly want to go. I did summer stock while in my UG, but I also worked a road house, did outdoor Shakespeare, was a intern for a prof regional house, and am now on a cruise ship. Some places I would love to work at again, others I never want to go back. Take time to learn from different people and learn about yourself. In the meantime I need to learn which school will best suit me.
sorry for the typos. Im on my phone leaving port and will loose data range shortly.
good luck.
sorry for the typos. Im on my phone leaving port and will loose data range shortly.
good luck.
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