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Conventional Fixtures Lycian 1209HP Won't Strike.. Help!

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by rosebudld, Dec 6, 2008.

  1. rosebudld

    rosebudld Member

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    Hey all, just getting ready to dive into my newly acquired Lycian 1209 HP follow spots that have MSR 575 HR bulbs because one of them won't strike.

    Am I right in thinking it's the capacitor that could be blown?

    The fans all come on, so I'm going to check to see if they've got a separate power supply from the lamp; but these spots usually begin to strike as soon as the power is turned on. Any advice would be appreciated..

    Thanks as always for your time and assistance (btw I suck at the search function and didn't come up with a good answer there which is why I'm posting..)

    -M

    Doing some research.. I believe those models have an ignitor module that will need replaced..

    Purchase History: Got them used from a production company.. so they're not new.. did replace the previously used bulb w/ a new one.. same result no strike.. will try with another bulb as that's a fine point about bulbs being D.O.A. but no warranty as such..
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  2. Sony

    Sony Active Member

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    Are you sure it's not just the lamp is burnt out or bad? That would be my first guess...especially considering that you said "newly acquired" which makes me think they are new to you...but you got them used. The lamp could have been damaged in transit if they came already installed from the previous place. It could also just be a bum lamp you put in there, they are rare, but they do occur.

    If the spots themselves are brand new, and a new lamp doesn't work then I would suggest getting someone from the company to come out and fix it under warranty before you go diving into it. They would know what they are doing and would most likely fix it for free since it's still under warranty.
     
  3. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    The Lycian, like the old Altman Satellites, uses a magnetic ballast and an "Igniter" module. This module produces a 30kv kick voltage to start the lamp. You can hear a sizzle as the igniter module fires, usually for less then one second after you hit the switch. If you don't hear this noise, yet the fans start up, there are three possible solutions that come to mind. A thermal switch thinks the unit is overheated, the igniter is bad, or the lamp is defective. If you do hear the noise, then the lamp is bad. This assumes that one of the lead wires has not become disconnected from the lamp base or the module. (very rare.) Good luck!

    Although caps can and do fail, it's not that common. If you meter a cap (make sure there is no charge on it!!!) it will read as open circuit even when good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2008
  4. Gretsch

    Gretsch Member

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    Also make sure that you are turning it on with the access panel closed, there is an "idiot switch" that disables the lamp if the panel is off. My guess is either a bad lamp or bad voltage booster.
     
  5. koimystic

    koimystic Member

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    You can test the bulb by getting a volt meter and switching it to the Ohms meter part, then touch the terminals of the bulb to each probe thing. If the ohms stay the same, the bulb is dead. If it goes down to 0 (having no resitance) it is still good. Someone correct me if I have this wrong or reversed.
     
  6. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    First, it's a lamp, not a bulb. Bulbs are planted in the ground to grow tulips and daffodils.:twisted: Second, a continuity test only works with incandescent lamps. In this case, we're discussing arc lamps, which will always show infinite resistance unless enough current is applied to make the electrons jump the spark gap between anode and cathode.
     
  7. rosebudld

    rosebudld Member

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    JD sent me a PM, and I believe it is the igniter.. luckily it's my fourth spot so I'm ok for awhile.. it doesn't make the characteristic buzz yet the fans still come on and I've tried switching out first lamp and two other new lamps so unless the one lamp died and the other two were D.O.A. that isn't the problem.. Thanks to all for the advice.. I'm in the middle of a mad December stretch and have low brain functions right now.. like you come in the door thinking you're doing one thing and meet yourself going doing something else..
     
  8. WesternTD

    WesternTD Member

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    I'm having a problem with one of these also. What if the unit is getting power, the lamp is new and ok, but it won't strike and the fans won't kick on. I'm beginning to think it is one of the 2 microswitches that disable striking when the lamp housing is open?? It seems one may be bad. Anyone have experience with this, or know where to find a service manual for the Lycian Midget 1209HP?
     
  9. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    If the fans are not running then it is probably one of your safety switches. I am very hesitant to give any further advice as the igniter produces a 30kv kick to get the bulb started and I don't want you dead!

    Check this out- With the power plug removed, you should be able to hear an audible click of the switch as you move the bulb tray in and out. Sometimes, these switches get bent up and don't click. There are only a few items wired on the primary (in series) that would cause this. The power switch, the fuse, the safety switch(s) and a thermal cut-out. Of course, a bad plug or line cable would cause this too ;)

    Someone probably has the link for the manual and can post it. (I am at work and don't have the file.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2009
  10. panandtilt

    panandtilt Member

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    We have a number of these in rental inventory.
    A majority of the issues we have had have been with the igniters and power switches failing.
    Capacitors rarely go bad and they will usually show signs of "bulging" at one end when defective.
     
  11. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Short list of replacement parts:

    Safety switch: 252
    Power Switch: 120670

    Lycian Stage Lighting, PO Box D, Kings Highway, Sugar Loaf NY 10981
    Phone 845-469-2285 Fax 845-469-5355

    Don't think it's the igniter as the fans are not running.
     
  12. WesternTD

    WesternTD Member

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    thanks guys, this is why I love controlbooth. it was in fact the safety switch on the lamp housing.
     
  13. derekleffew

    derekleffew Resident Curmudgeon Senior Team Premium Member

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    All in a day's work, ma'am. Just another of our many, many success stories. ControlBooth is only as good as its members make it.:grin:

    Now, define something today!;)
    And don't forget to tell our advertisers you saw them on Control Booth.:lol:
     
  14. abeness

    abeness Member

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    This is obviously an old thread, but for the historical record in case of future need I'll post our own experience. Obviously, always start with the simple stuff...

    We recently built a theater in our new school building, and two of these Lycian Midget 1209 spots were included. Neither fired up consistently from the start. Brand-new bulbs, fans came on, relay clicked. They would ignite only very occasionally during testing. We weren't getting satisfaction from the contractor, so I called Lycian directly and learned that there had been an assembly issue with some units recently: the spark gap had been incorrectly set during assembly (should have been 5/8 of a turn of the gap adjustment screw, and was close to 2 turns on one, over 1 turn on the other). If the gap is too large, the igniter spark can't jump it when it reaches the correct voltage, and the lamp therefore can't ignite. Turned out that correcting the gap was something I could do myself with their guidance, so I did, rather than deal with a return, further delay, or having someone from Lycian shlep down to do it. Bit of a disassembly chore, but no big deal if you're the type that respects electricity and knows how to do stuff like that. Both spots now consistently ignite. Lycian was great.

    One cautionary note: on reassembly of one I neglected to reconnect the fan cables, the clue to which was obviously that the fans didn't spin up. Oops, another disassembly requiring removing that 30-pound power tray...
     
  15. JD

    JD Well-Known Member

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    Yes, most magnetic ballasts use passive ignitors. It is basically a high voltage DC supply connected to a spark gap. The output of the spark gap then loops through a winding of a transformer. The electrical noise from the spark gap induces a very high voltage in the secondary of the transformer which ignites the lamp. (Several variants; May simply be a winding in the ballast, may be an auto-transformer in series with the ballast, etc.)

    In some spots, the spark gap may be a sealed glass tube (Altman Satellite), in others it may be an adjustable screw.

    Some (often movers) use a potted electronic ignitor of the type often found in street lamps. These basically contain a high power diac, a cap, a resistor, and an inductor all potted in epoxy. These are good for smaller lamps that need less that a 4kv kick. The disadvantage of this circuit is that the distance between the ballast core an the lamp must be very short.

    Electronic ballasts often use an active ignitor that incorporates a special drive circuit in the electronics. Some however (the old MARC350 ultra arc ballasts), do use the spark gap method.

    In all cases that I know of, if the ballast is separate from the fixture, and connected by a user detachable cable, the ignitor is a stand-alone system located in the lamp housing area as compared to part of the ballast assembly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013

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