Automated Fixtures MAC 500 DMX termination/wheel hall sensor

Could it be that the "dousers" are running the unit through its reset state as they close (a problem with MAC250's if you run the shutter the wrong way), but I would have to know if by "douser" you mean the dimmer or shutter.

Mike

Mike makes a good point. I totally forgot, one of my pet peeves with many Martin Fixtures is that the shutter channel is also the control channel, in that it controls lamp functions and reset functions and such in addition to just the shutter. So, check to make sure that this channel is not cued into your show in some strange way as it may be causing your issues.
 
Yeah, add that to the list of things I hate about Martin.

Mike
 
I had a guy at martin tell me to make sure that the martin protocol detect is disabled in the software, he said one glitch upon bootup and it can think that it is running martin protocol and cause all sorts of weird problems. Since you are on tour, i'd check your fan outs and make sure its not a wiring problem. I know its not building power related b/c all of the other fixtures are not doing it and it keeps happening every day. Try to run through your cues after the lights sit for about an hour. Another thing i am betting on is the wiring harnesses going bad. All of the mac fixture should now have the extremely fine black wiring. The thick black wires and the mulitcolored harnesses should be replaced. When it heats up the hall sensor loses its place, on the color wheel which it is most prone for from what it sounds like, and what will happen is it will keep the shutters closed while it keeps trying to find the color home position. I had macs doing all sorts of weird things until i replaced the wiring harnesses. I hope this helps, also macs have much better data buffering than any other fixture.
 
len, I'd put "try a different output on the opto" as step #3A. Also, since in this case it's only one unit malfunctioning, shouldn't replacing the fixture be step #3B?

They weren't necessarily meant to be done in that order. Those are just some of the things that I do when I have an issue. I do them in the order from easiest to try to hardest to try depending on the situation and what the problem is.

Like the time I was programming a new show where 1/2 the fixtures were something new, and half were something I had programming for. So I kept having issues with one group of led fixtures for hours, until I realized that there was a default dmx value for some addresses carried over from the old fixtures.

9 times of out 10, there's some gremlin sending bad data to a fixture.
 
OK so today we are trying a new opto on one side and see what happens tonite . . Fortunately, being a touring situation I only have enough time to try one thing at a time LOL today the opto tomorrow the 4ft jumps between the units, next time reloading software on the console, day after that software on fixtures. Trying everything.

Someone had asked what the fixture are doing specifically. Well, they power up fine every day we dome focus points (just fine) they sit for about 3 hours in open white the show starts about 15 minutes in the dousers close and the go into a color roll and a soft reset will not stop it. If you need more information let me know but that is about what they are doing consistently. I personally think it may be a glitch with the programming thay may have been caused by a power spike, surge, etc. that is not correcting itself.

I'm a Martin service tech, among other hats I wear...

I would not reload the software until you've eliminated some other things first. In all my years (12-ish) of working with MAC500's and the like, I think I've had software issues perhaps twice.

To me, it does not sound like a power issue from what you describe, though I could be mistaken. Generally, if the fixtures are underpowered, you may see a **** symbol, if memory serves, or the fixtures may pan and tilt, but they won't strike. If they are overpowered or underpowered, I can't see that you would be seeing this specific behavior you are experiencing. It's been a while since I've worked on MAC500's, so memory may not serve me as well as I would like it to. It certainly doesn't hurt to check the circuit though, if you're qualified/capable of doing so safely. Is the fixture twofered to another, or is it on its own circuit?

I would be interested to hear if you can make the behavior go away in the troublesome fixtures by readdressing them to known good DMX addresses and physically moving them to position and plugging them in where a known good fixture is, in your rig. If that does not work, and you put a known working fixture (not a spare from your stock, but one already in the rig that you know is working) in the position of the bad fixture, both physically and with the same DMX address, what happens to it? Does it exhibit the same issues? If so, then it sounds like it could be a data issue.

The behavior you are describing *sounds* like one exhibited when there are hall sensor errors on the gobo or color wheels. You move a wheel, the shutters close, the color wheels and gobo wheels just spin...and spin...and spin. (Then they time out after a while, I think...until the next time you move the wheel with the sensor issues) I'm not sure what your experience level is, but I'd be happy to try to talk you through a few basic troubleshooting techniques, if you're comfortable taking the fixture head covers off and examining some bits inside.

Off the top of my head, it could be that you're missing a magnet off a wheel, the magnet is not aligning properly with the hall sensor, the magnet is too far away from the recommended distance between the two (2 or 2.5mm...I can't remember off the top of my head), or the sensor jumper wire is loose or disconnected. Just because the magnet may pass directly under the hall sensor with the minimum distance, still doesn't mean it is aligned properly. If the motor is a step off either side of that magnet, then it won't trigger it. Someone mentioned that the fixture may work fine until it heats up, then the magnets don't play nice with the sensor. This is definitely a possibility.

One other thing you can do relatively quickly along the sensor/feedback line of thinking...go to your display menu and turn off the feedback for the color and gobo wheels. SPEC --> EFFb --> Off (Enter). Then test the fixture again. If this allows your "bad" fixture to work properly, then you can be pretty sure the issue was in the feedback circuit somewhere (some kind of issue with the sensors or their circuitry). I would not recommend operating in this mode, because if you've programmed the fixture blue, and the wheel gets lost and confused, you could end up in red.

Once you've eliminated a sensor issue, data line/cabling issues, and console issue, my only other thought is that there is an issue with the DMX transceiver in the "bad" fixture...I have one particular fixture on my work bench that will take hard-line DMX all day long...in and out...but if I feed it any kind of wireless DMX into that string of fixtures, and it is in the middle of the DMX chain, it goes crazy. It's going to get some PCB work done in short order to fix it...

As I suggested above, and in my last post about the subject, I think you should start by removing a good working fixture that is already in your rig, plugging your "bad" fixture into the same place that the good one came from, and readdressing the "bad" fixture to match what the good one's address was, then test it.

I hope some of this helps...

Good luck!
 
Ahhh, nothing like a smart girl talking DMX! No wonder Jim is smitten with you....


(Nice to see you here Abby! :clap: )

Howdy, Keith! That's why Jim married me. He makes everything pretty, and I make it work or fix it when it doesn't.

Thanks for the welcome. I only recently found CB. What a great place! I'm still feeling my way around...

Take care!
-Abby
 
First i'd like to say thanks to everyone for all their help on this. Heres the update had a few extra hours yesterday to try a bunch of things . . . still no answer as far as that goes. However, we did trying hooking up one of our spare units in the position of one of the bad units (same address same data line same power) and it did operate correctly. So that being said, thinking this is definatley a problem with the units. The two units that are exhibiting the problem came from the same shop at the same time so (both were spares used to replace other 500's that ate themselves LOL) so.... here comes the quote. . .
The behavior you are describing *sounds* like one exhibited when there are hall sensor errors on the gobo or color wheels. You move a wheel, the shutters close, the color wheels and gobo wheels just spin...and spin...and spin. (Then they time out after a while, I think...until the next time you move the wheel with the sensor issues) I'm not sure what your experience level is, but I'd be happy to try to talk you through a few basic troubleshooting techniques, if you're comfortable taking the fixture head covers off and examining some bits inside.

This is the only thing (honestly we've tried everything) we haven't checked. Upon closer examination it's actually the static gobo wheel that is spinning (we thought it was the color wheel because gobo wheel has three custom dichros in it too) Anyway, hall sensor error yup that could be it considering this thing is filled with custom gobos and color and perhaps a wheel got knocked out of alignment when these were being installed.

abbyt are you saying that the unit would cal up correctly and operate correctly until the gobo wheel was told to move??? If so would you be able to walk me through trouble shooting this the correct way. I am very comfortable with taking covers off and working on these (I am "MAER" literate if you know what I mean but am self taught on movers)
 
First i'd like to say thanks to everyone for all their help on this. Heres the update had a few extra hours yesterday to try a bunch of things . . . still no answer as far as that goes. However, we did trying hooking up one of our spare units in the position of one of the bad units (same address same data line same power) and it did operate correctly. So that being said, thinking this is definatley a problem with the units. The two units that are exhibiting the problem came from the same shop at the same time so (both were spares used to replace other 500's that ate themselves LOL) so.... here comes the quote. . .


This is the only thing (honestly we've tried everything) we haven't checked. Upon closer examination it's actually the static gobo wheel that is spinning (we thought it was the color wheel because gobo wheel has three custom dichros in it too) Anyway, hall sensor error yup that could be it considering this thing is filled with custom gobos and color and perhaps a wheel got knocked out of alignment when these were being installed.

abbyt are you saying that the unit would cal up correctly and operate correctly until the gobo wheel was told to move??? If so would you be able to walk me through trouble shooting this the correct way. I am very comfortable with taking covers off and working on these (I am "MAER" literate if you know what I mean but am self taught on movers)

As soon as you're able, send me an email to:

atutorow at onlocationls dot com

...and I'll be happy to help you, as time permits, for both of us...
 
The behavior you are describing *sounds* like one exhibited when there are hall sensor errors on the gobo or color wheels. You move a wheel, the shutters close, the color wheels and gobo wheels just spin...and spin...and spin. (Then they time out after a while, I think...until the next time you move the wheel with the sensor issues) I'm not sure what your experience level is, but I'd be happy to try to talk you through a few basic troubleshooting techniques, if you're comfortable taking the fixture head covers off and examining some bits inside.

Just an update got the fixtures working today. The fixed gobo wheel was out of alignment with the hall sensor causing the wheel to spin and spin when data was sent to move the fixed gobo wheel and only then. Just to recap: The unit would cal up correctly would work for hours doing focus points and such but as soon as we sent signal to the unit at the top of the show the shutters would close and the fixed gobo wheel would spin and spin and spin (with no error message on the display). The wheel got knocked out of alignment when some custom gobos were installed in the unit.

Turns out this was quite an easy fix and took only about 15 minutes to fix both units. So much easier than having to ship the back and get new ones.

Thanks everyone for all your help on this issue and abbyt for the hints on the sensors. I hope this post can be useful to someone else having this problem someday.
 

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